Solid state jazz guitar amp suggestions

[jorgemg1984]

I only tried an Evans briefly and it does not sound "neutral". Honestly I think your best bet is an old Polytone - sounds amazing, not exactly neutral but very different from a Fender tube amp, has fx loop, not class d.. and very cheap in the US. The 8 models are particularly good imo.

The Solemate should make you happy. I have a Spring Theory and I do like it but I find the Zoom spring reverb of my MS100BT is good enough. I would love to try a Topanga.

[wengr]

So last night for the first time ever, I plugged my ES165 into my Ultrasound Pro200 acoustic guitar amp. Results were surprisingly nice. The ultrasound has two 8" and a horn.
The high end was not perfect, maybe because I don't love the performance of the horn, so I tend to run it almost off.
But - for some reason, the lows and mids are somewhat uncolored, unhyped and accurate. Pretty much what I would like to hear from my Eastman, but it does not perform nearly as well with the Eastman, the lows and low mids being cloudy and muffled.

[wengr]

I only tried an Evans briefly and it does not sound "neutral". Honestly I think your best bet is an old Polytone - sounds amazing, not exactly neutral but very different from a Fender tube amp, has fx loop, not class d.. and very cheap in the US. The 8 models are particularly good imo.

Polytone is certainly on the list of things I want to try.

[wengr]

I'm looking at my Puma 900, a decent quality German class D bass head, and it has no jacks to access the pre and output stages separately. It doe have an effects loop. Could the loop be used in that way?
If so, I could obtain a pre and tone stack appropriate for jazz guitar in a pedal and put it into the loop, giving me in effect a class D guitar head? Or would the gain staging or something else be wrong?
I would do this as maybe I could borrow an appropriate front end somewhere, and then I could hear the power section in action on my guitar.

[lawson-stone]

Yes, but I mean a mix or level control on the amp effects loop, so I don't have to hit the front end of the amp with verb.

I might be confused as to what you're asking for, but my Polytone Minibrute has a level control on the effects loop. I sometimes use the loop input for background tracks, and I control the volume with the level knob of the effects loop.

I don't think it controls the reverb, which has it's own control.

Like I said, I might not be clear about what you want, but if this information is helpful, I'm happy.

[wengr]

I might be confused as to what you're asking for, but my Polytone Minibrute has a level control on the effects loop. I sometimes use the loop input for background tracks, and I control the volume with the level knob of the effects loop.

I don't think it controls the reverb, which has it's own control.

Like I said, I might not be clear about what you want, but if this information is helpful, I'm happy.

Yes that would work. The loop level control should allow me to use whatever outboard reverb I want, and not use the onboard reverb. Thanks.

[DanielleOM]

I think my Eastman AR805CE sounds great when I use the pickup and a microphone and then mix them together.

I think there's a limit to how much acoustic tone you can really capture using the magnetic pickup alone.

Maybe you need an amp with an instrument and microphone channel?



Seems there's a lot of love here for Quilters. I stopped at a local dealer and started to try the micropro II 10 and the aviator 10. Seemed there was a lot of noise that he could not get rid of at low volumes. We tried different instrument cables and his personal guitar as well. I was little surprised.

I had tried an AER Compact 60/3 a few days before and I was unable to hear any background noise or hiss.

[oldane]

An AI head is powerful, clean, neutral sounding, though IMHO not too inspiring in itself, because it is meant primarily for acoustic instruments. But it's great as a very versatile basis of a module system and it can be used for a lot of different things and can be hooked up in several different ways. When coupled with an appropiate preamp or EQ pedal it sounds really great. What an appropiate pedal is depends on the sound one wants. I use it with a Sansamp Paradriver DI in front. Some use a BarbEQ if they specifically go for a more Fenderish sound. If one just wants "clean" EQ, the Empress ParaEQ is great. But of course there are many more great pedals out there that I haven't tried.

[medblues]

Many powered speakers are class D and/or have digital circuitry of some sort.

Based on your description you should look into Polytone or Evans amplifiers. Or older model SS bass amplifiers.

[wengr]

I think there's a limit to how much acoustic tone you can really capture using the magnetic pickup alone.

Yes, I suspect you are on to something here.

Maybe you need an amp with an instrument and microphone channel?

You have given me an idea here. I think sitting around at home playing into a mic would not be enjoyable, but I have a DPA 4099g clip on mic that I use with my flat top guitars. Never thought of trying it on archtop, but I will. Maybe there is something to be learned.

I had tried an AER Compact 60/3 a few days before and I was unable to hear any background noise or hiss.

What guitar, and what did you think of it?

[lawson-stone]

Yes that would work. The loop level control should allow me to use whatever outboard reverb I want, and not use the onboard reverb. Thanks.

I don't know how familiar you are with Polytopes (forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know very well!).

Here's a picture of the controls for the amp I have. You can see the level control for the effects loop. Maybe you'll see something here that give you information I am not aware you need.

Of course, each model is slightly different.

[Greentone]

I have built the same reverb as Clark for years. It happens to be the same circuit that the less expensive Fender unit uses. It is a classic. The mix knob mixes the dry signal with the "wet" (reverb) signal. The dwell knob determines the overall amount of reverberation, i.e., the excitation of the spring unit. The tone knob does...what a tone knob does.

This three knob circuit is about as good as it gets with an analog, all-tube circuit. I have used this circuit since the 1960s and prefer it to all else for guitar. If you like the reverb on the Fender Twin Reverb you will like this reverb circuit even more.

Class-D amps sound pretty darned good, to me. If you try amps like the AI or the Henriksen (particularly the "Bud" with the 6.5" speaker), you will get a very faithful amplification system for an archtop guitar for jazz.

FWIW though, I think that the best I ever heard an Eastman archtop sound was a player who was using a silverface Fender Super Reverb Amp. I wouldn't have guessed that necessarily, but the rig (and the player) sounded outstanding.

[DanielleOM]

Yes, I suspect you are on to something here.You have given me an idea here. I think sitting around at home playing into a mic would not be enjoyable, but I have a DPA 4099g clip on mic that I use with my flat top guitars. Never thought of trying it on archtop, but I will. Maybe there is something to be learned.

What guitar, and what did you think of it?

I had a Benedetto Bravo (A6 pickup). w/ TI Jazz Swing 12 strings I liked what I was hearing. Seemed very accurate with clarity and note separation. Played with amp eq flat. Not a lot of bass with eq flat but did not take time to adjust the eq.

[nickel]

Orange

[jorgemg1984]

I have built the same reverb as Clark for years. It happens to be the same circuit that the less expensive Fender unit uses. It is a classic. The mix knob mixes the dry signal with the "wet" (reverb) signal. The dwell knob determines the overall amount of reverberation, i.e., the excitation of the spring unit. The tone knob does...what a tone knob does.

This three knob circuit is about as good as it gets with an analog, all-tube circuit. I have used this circuit since the 1960s and prefer it to all else for guitar. If you like the reverb on the Fender Twin Reverb you will like this reverb circuit even more.

Class-D amps sound pretty darned good, to me. If you try amps like the AI or the Henriksen (particularly the "Bud" with the 6.5" speaker), you will get a very faithful amplification system for an archtop guitar for jazz.

FWIW though, I think that the best I ever heard an Eastman archtop sound was a player who was using a silverface Fender Super Reverb Amp. I wouldn't have guessed that necessarily, but the rig (and the player) sounded outstanding.

Greentone is the Bud Class D? I was under the impression it was Class A/B, as all Hneriksens?

[iim7V7IM7]

My suggestion would be an AI Clarus Head with John Buscarino's Chameleon Speaker. The speaker is a two-way, 8" with a switch for electric or acoustic modes. The heads are roughly 4lb. and the speakers are 23lbs. I can play either my archtop with a magnetic PU (speaker in electric mode) or my nylon with a Barbera through that rig (speaker in acoustic mode).

[marcwhy]

Seems there's a lot of love here for Quilters. I stopped at a local dealer and started to try the micropro II 10 and the aviator 10. Seemed there was a lot of noise that he could not get rid of at low volumes. We tried different instrument cables and his personal guitar as well. I was little surprised.
.

If you told Quilter this, they'd send you a new one immediately. Mine is dead quiet, even in my old house with old electricity.

[wengr]

Ok, in the last few days I have learned that I should be able to make up a really good class D amplifier from stuff that I already have.
I will take my DTar Solstice premap that I use live for acoustic flat tops, and insert it's output into the effects loop return of my TecAmp Puma 900 class D bass head. I would think that this should provide a class D had that should rival anything typically available.
Also, in the event that the bass mid and treble controls are not perfectly situated for archtop guitars, I have a DTar Equinox parametric EQ that I can loop into the preamp. That gives me a really decent pre, para eq and notch filter, into a good quality output stage.

However I have no good cabinet to use, else I would be reporting the results already.
If I can't find one to borrow, I'll grab an adapter and have to use a speaker in a combo amp. May not be ideal, but better than nothing.

[Cunamara]

I would think you could probably run the D-TAR units straight into a powered speaker and get very good results. Duncan and Turner have come up with some very good stuff.

A fundamental issue here is that of trade-offs. With magnetic pickups on an archtop guitar, what's good for acoustic tone tends to be bad for electric tone and vice versa. A good acoustic archtop tends to turn into a howling banshee unless the amp is in another room.

[wengr]

A fundamental issue here is that of trade-offs. With magnetic pickups on an archtop guitar, what's good for acoustic tone tends to be bad for electric tone and vice versa. A good acoustic archtop tends to turn into a howling banshee unless the amp is in another room.

This is very interesting to me. I'm going to take some time to really consider it. Thanks.

[jzucker]

i disagree totally with your premise. Have a listen to Peter Bernstein who plays a carved top through a tube amp. Also, carved top guitars were designed for tube amps and 99% of the carved top guitars of today are copies in some way of the originals. Having said that, the mambo amp sounds great with a carved top.

Hello. I have recently come to conclusion, that I will not ever be satisfied with tube amps for carved archtops.
I want to hear the top wood. I want something more hifi and accurate, and tube amps in my experience are too thick sounding and tend to make various guitars sound similiar as opposed to allowing the tone to get thru.
My application here is for an Eastman Pisano ar880 w/flatwounds, doing fingerstyle arrangements, at home. Moderate or less volume, no drummer.
I'm coming to believe that while I need tubes for many other applications, that only SS will satisfy here. I'm only really interested in the tone. Size, weight, convenience etc. is of zero importance.
Here is what I don't want:
Class D
Modeling
Digital effects
Digital anything.

I play the Eastman thru my various tube amps now, but actually prefer an Ultrasound Pro200 that I have, which is designed for acoustic flat tops primarily. It's ok, but cloudy in the bass, and crappy digital effects.
So, some ideas I have are:
A straight SS amp, Evans, Alfresco, etc.
Something similar to the Ultrasound, but better: AER?
Or, maybe a monitor, like a QSC 10, If I can get a preamp pedal with appropriate tone controls?

And finally - I'm really dependent on good reverb. I'll want a spring, and maybe even tube driven spring, so I'll need an effects loop, provided that the loop allows me to mix the dry and wet signals so that the tube reverb does not spoil my clarity too much.

Well, that's alot of rambling. Any thoughts appreciated.

[wengr]

i disagree totally with your premise.

It's not really a premise. It's a personal opinion.

Have a listen to Peter Bernstein who plays a carved top through a tube amp.

I certainly will.

Also, carved top guitars were designed for tube amps and 99% of the carved top guitars of today are copies in some way of the originals.

Sure. I guess they would have to have been designed for tube amps. What else was there at that time? But now there are options. I think options and exploration is good.

Having said that, the mambo amp sounds great with a carved top.

I have no chance to try one. I'm not knocking tube amps. I bought a new tube amp two weeks ago. And for years, some time ago my main jazz setup was an L5 Wes thru a Tophat Ambassador T-35, which was my favorite boutique fender type amp. And it's a cool tone, but for what I do now which is solo fingerstyle just not my first choice.

[Woody Sound]

Pearce.

[wengr]

With all of the things you have rejected out of hand- which are pretty much all features of SS jazz amps made in the past decade- you may want to look at the old Yamaha G50-112 I or II (there is a 100 watt version as well) or a Gibson LAB series amp. They are great amps.

I have come across an advert for a 1985 Yamaha G50-210. I believe it's series I. Average cosmetic condition. I wonder how it would be in the 210 variant? I may try to check it out.

[wzpgsr]

If it's cheap--and it should be--jump on it. Spend some time making sure all the pots work because in my experience perfect replacements are hard to find.

Oh wait. Sorry, I saw just now you said series I. My experience has been with series ii, which I believe is fairly different.