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Besides the necks being vastly different, (I have sold a guitar because I couldn't get used to the neck), the big difference really seems to be the top... Both are electric guitars, intended for electric use. I know neither is meant to be used as a stand-alone acoustic; I have played the Godin and it's acoustic voice is still light years better than other electric arch tops I have played; I found it very open and airy and pleasant when compared to other electric arch tops. But on The Loar, I wonder if the solid spruce top makes much difference acoustically, makes it sound a little more like a acoustic archtop, or if all it does is enhance feedback when used electrically...?
Regardless to the answer/truth to that question, the necks may make the decision for me... I find the Godin neck chunky enough; and I dislike V necks.... and after reading reports that the 309's neck is a deep V and is very chunky (in addition to the 1-3/4" nut), MIGHT be a deal-breaker for me...
And while we're on this subject of "Poor man's ES-125s"... I've been researching the 125, and I find conflicting information, it's like either data was kept poorly or no one is sure of the data.... I've seen info that the ES-125 had a solid spruce top, a solid maple top, a laminate maple top.... I'm assuming it's lam maple, but does anyone have a good resource for specs on the old Gibsons? I found one site that seems like a good resource, but it doesn't even list the 125's top wood/construction...
Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson electric archtop vintage guitar collecting
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10-15-2015 06:58 AM
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64 ES 125... It is lam maple on mine.. it is the same material they used for the 175. I am pretty certain Ingrams 175 book will tell you what the other woods in the laminate are.. IIRC correctly in the day it was Maple and Basswood but now (or at least in the 90s/00s) Gibson was using maple and poplar.
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http://www.acousticmusic.org/userfil...atalog%20G.pdf
Originally Posted by ruger9
It states "arched, select maple top and back ..."
and I can confirm according to what mine is made of
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339 in june,
Thank you for this!
Mine is a '51 and I always just assumed "lam."
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I have never seen a 125 with a solid top, I am pretty sure they are all laminates.
My '48 clearly has laminated top, with the top layer being mahogany (the early ones had that).
For those interested, here's a little overview of the changes Gibson made to the ES-125 in the 40ies/50ies:
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from Gibson themselves:
"Until the introduction of the ES-175 in 1949, all Gibson archtops were still made with solid, carved-arch tops,"
http://www.gibson.com/news-lifestyle/features/en-us/legendaryrigsclassicjazz.aspx
See what I mean about conflicting information??
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Funny thing is you cant always trust manufacturers to know their own product. Even old timers at some of these places dont know the minutia that guitar nerds do. Originally Posted by ruger9
The quote above covers 99.9% of Gibsons production so is it accurate? For everyone but a guitar nerd it is accurate enough..
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> covers 99.9% of Gibsons
The laminate versions of the ES-125, ES-150, and ES-300 came out two years before the ES-175.
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MY curiosity as to what the old ES-125's tops actually were stems from my trying to make choice on a "poor man's ES-125"... a Godin Kingpin (which is of course laminate cherry top and body), and The Loar LH309 (which has a solid carved spruce top) Originally Posted by SamBooka
Also, the neck pickup's positioning on The Loar is also more like the 125....
I find it shocking that some of this data is so hard to come by.... you would think there would be a "definitive" answer to the question (what were ES-125 tops made of, prior to say... 1945?) I mean, Martin Guitar can sometimes pull records of where an individual serial number was shipped to 50 years ago, but Gibson can't answer that question? (or maybe they can- and did- in the link I posted, but ALOT of guitar players/collectors would disagree, as conflicting info- that 125's were pressed maple tops- is all over the internet)
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To proof that not all sheep are white you only have to find one that's black. But so far I've never found a solid top ES-125..... (or seen pictures of it)
But I'm no guitar-authority of course.
Maybe some of the confusion comes from the fact that early ES-150s - with solid carved top - came out wit a 16 1/4" body also? They looked very similar to the ES-125 and would have had a P90 also for a short time, only difference to the eye would have been block inlays and a bound fingerboard. To top that off, Gibson made a short-lived more luxurious version of the 125: the ES-135 with block inlays and a bound fingerboard, but with a pressed laminate top. That guitar looked exactly like the ES-150 but missed the carved top. The 125/135/150 from that period sometimes get confused, as do their features.Last edited by Little Jay; 10-16-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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Add to that that in 46 or 48 they introduced an ES150 that is a crown inlaid 17 in lam. Originally Posted by Little Jay
To proof that not all sheep are white you only have to find one that's black. But so far I've never found a solid top ES-125..... (or seen pictures of it) But I'm no guitar-authority of course.
Maybe some of the confusion comes from the fact that early ES-150s - with solid carved top - came out wit a 16 1/4" body also? They looked very similar to the ES-125 and would have had a P90 also for a short time, only difference to the eye would have been block inlays and a bound fingerboard. To top that off, Gibson made a short-lived more luxurious version of the 125: the ES-135 with block inlays and a bound fingerboard, but with a pressed laminate top. That guitar looked exactly like the ES-150 but missed the carved top. The 125/135/150 from that period sometimes get confused, as do their features.
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I think you have a difficult choice here of tone V playability. I haven't played the the 309 but I have a Loar 700 and have played the Godin. It's a personal taste thing but I didn't get on with the Godins I tried. Mainly electrics to be fair, but even the acoustic 5th to my ear had poor acoustic tone. The loar 700 has a great tone but, as you highlight, has the V profile. The neck profile was an issue for me. In the end I liked the sound and look of the guitar so much I had the V shaved down but a local guy who charged £80 to do it. It now fits my hand very well.
Quality wise, I've had no issues with loar and while it's clearly the case that QC has been an issue for some, I'm not sure I buy all the neck angle stuff I read. A bit of reading online will show it has the same neck angle as the old Gibson it emulates. I posted a picture of the neck angle here a while back.
Finally, if you're determined to go with the Godin I'd take a serious look at the Eastmans. I have the AR372CE and while it's an electric intrument, often strum it acoustically. They are very playable.
Good luck.
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Finally took a look at my '51.
Yes it is a lam. Thank you one & all.
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That would make sense- Gibson said everything up until '49 was solid. Originally Posted by rabbit
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My '48 ES-125 is laminated....
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Originally Posted by Little Jay
UH-OH.... someone at Gibson screwed up LOL
Laminate WHAT? Maple? Spruce?
this is the problem; I understand a builder trying different things, lord knows Fender did with his amps along the way, sometimes changing things within a model year.... but you would think someone, if not the builder than SOMEONE- some expert - like Gruhn maybe?- would have the data on these specs and changes.... you can find that info on the Fender amp line from the 40s-50s without too much trouble, but with the early Gibson electric arch tops, no one seems to have a definitive database of info.
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True, I read in several Gibson books that Gibson was very consistent in being inconsistent ;-)
And the laminate of my '48 is not spruce or maple but mahogany! (Well, at least the top layer).
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Have you made up your mind already about a Loar or a Godin? (Or maybe Eastman?). I think you can only make your decision if you play them side by side. And an ES-125 in between as a reference...
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That would be the first I've ever heard of that ANYWHERE. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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I'd rather play them first of course, but finding a Godin around here would require a drive... thru NY Metro traffic. Ditto the Loar. I've seen several of each go for great used prices on eBay, which is why I wouldn't be adverse to getting one cheap... in case I don't like it, I can flip it. And the Godin QC doesn't worry me.... but The Loar QC very much does Originally Posted by Little Jay
Have you made up your mind already about a Loar or a Godin? (Or maybe Eastman?). I think you can only make your decision if you play them side by side. And an ES-125 in between as a reference...
I saw a Godin Kingpin go for a mere $329 the other day.... crazy. Can't go wrong for that price... but if I bought the Godin (or The Loar) w/o playing the other, I would always wonder....
Eastman doesn't have an ES-125/150 type.... unless I missed it on their website. They have a lot of single-pickups with cutaways, but I didn't see any P90s.... Eastmans are just as hard to locate as the others, around here.
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When I first saw the pic of your 125 I said in my head "Sorry dude, but.... " I have neen a few L-48 converstions but that didnt sound right to me. Originally Posted by Little Jay
I cannot explain your guitar.. but it looks cool and is very unique.
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Originally Posted by ruger9
There are more around on the net that look like mine: with a flat back (braced like an acoustic steelstring), tapered head stock, 19 frets, early perspex barrel knobs. It apparently is the early ES-125 version from 48-50. The FON is very hard to read, but it looks like 3428, which could either be 1948 or 1950, but considering all the characteristics found in early ones (especially the perspex knobs and the use of strips of cloth inside to reinforce the sides) I lean towards 1948. Originally Posted by SamBooka
They do pop up every now and then:
http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-es-125-1948-sunburst-1
http://www.retrofret.com/products.asp?ProductID=5135
(*edit: sorry for hijacking the thread...l'll stop now)
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I have the acoustic Godin 5th Ave. I swapped the factory pickguard for a gibson ES150 repro as the factory one was far to flexible - I put quite a bit of pressure on the guard while playing it seems. I swapped the TusQ bridge for a Stew Mac ebony that I fitted to the top and it significantly improved the tone ( cleaner) and projection (louder).I bought it as an acoustic with the intention of adding a pickup of my own choice but am on the fence still regarding which pickup I want. Hope that helps
WillLast edited by WillMbCdn5; 11-18-2015 at 08:29 PM.
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