-
While I've had fun for a couple years with my Peerless-built Epi Broadway, I've been wanting a single pickup/ES125/more acoustic-y style for awhile now, [note: not an acoustic archtop, but one that has a pleasant unplugged sound as well as being electric], and the 2 most likely candidates in my price range seem to be the Godin Kingpin and The Loar LH309. Any updates from people who have been able to try the Loar? Reviews are all over the map....
Looking more for acoustic tonal differences, as plugged in the P90s will play the major tonal role.... the big differences seem to be:
-neck profiles (the Loar is reportedly a heavy V, which I would not like)
-Loar is carved spruce top, Kingpin is laminate Cherry
-Godin has a wood saddle, I've seen the Loar with wood as well as metal; but this is easily changeable so not really an issue... but the 2 materials do affect unplugged sound pretty drastically, in my experiences
Of course I'd love to try both, and I did try a Godin CW Kingpin II a couple years ago, and I liked it, but my head was also in a different place then... I'm simply not going to be able to try these 2 side-by-side. I'll have to go off specs, buy used, and chalk it up to experience. FWIW, I'm looking for more of the old-school Charlie Christian/Junior Barnard type sounds...Last edited by ruger9; 10-14-2015 at 07:32 AM.
-
10-14-2015 07:15 AM
-
I own both and I would have to give the edge to the Loar LH309 with one BIG caveat. The Loar's quality control has always been pretty bad. When I received my LH309, the bridge was so high that it was unplayable and there was no room to adjust it lower. Because I have grown to expect problems with every Loar that is manufactured, I didn't return it, I took it to the shop and had "my guy" shave the base of the bridge and install flats. So for an extra $75 in work, I now have an AWESOME guitar.
It sounds much louder and livelier than my Kingpin (which is also a very nice guitar) and really has that ES-125 vibe. I love it. You just have to be prepared to have some work done or live with some cosmetic flaw. I have owned a BUNCH of Loars over the years and the only one with no issues out of the box was my LH-700, which you would expect given the price.
-
I think it's Tusq mate.
Originally Posted by ruger9
This might help..
I pitched a Godin Kingpin against a Guild T50 slim and thought the Guild was the better instrument.
On the Godin I didn't like the way the fret ends were finished, no shaping, literally flush to the fingerboard.
The Godin does have a louder acoustic volume compared to the Guild, but then again the Guild is pitched as an electric IMO.
I wouldn't describe the Godin as a stunning acoustic tone, just adequate.
The Guild had a better electric P90 sound, the volume and tone work well together and the neck and fingerboard was so easy to get around.
I kinda got lost in playing the T50 and when I went up the neck for 14th fret noodling I found I couldn't and for a nano-second I couldn't understand why, d'oh!
Both instruments come with a case.
I felt the Godin was a step down in electric sound and overall finished quality.
There was £200 difference in price and it was obvious.
Now if the Guild had a cutaway I would have gone for it in a big way and then spent the next 18 months sofa surfing as me wife would've thrown me out the house. But I'd still have the guitar..... :-o
All IMHO
-
Any Godin you get will have passed QC. I also think the bridge is actually synthetic but that is a 20$ fix. I have tried many many Godins.. i WANT to like them.. but I dont. They get lots of love here so it is definitely just me. I have an ES125 and they are similar on paper.. that is about it. The finish and feel of the guitars are not similar.
I have only played a couple of times the loar. I wasnt blown away either. Actually feels good but the ones I tried had the funky neck angle. I think the V neck is much less pronounced (was not an issue for me). I recall thinking the guitar was quite heavy, more along the lines of modern ES175s. Nice thing about the loar with the solid top is that it will break in with time..
Plugged in they both sound great, which is important, but the feel of the godin doesnt do it for me.
-
I have read about The Loar QC, which is why the reviews are all over the map. I guess that's a -1 for attempting to buy on used, unfortunately.... because it won't likely be returnable if there's an issue, like bad neck angle, etc...
-
Some extra dough involved (that you will get back when you sell it), but why not get a real ES-125?
-
+1 Originally Posted by nopedals
In the end you'll want one anyway...... ;-)
-
Actually, I'm not huge on vintage gear. I've played great vintage stuff, and I've played dogs. Vintage does not automatically = better. Or even good.
I'm more from the camp of "buy it new(ish), then vintage it yourself." If Gibson made a current ES-125, that was affordable, that is probably what I would be trying to figure out how to buy. But since they don't, I'm looking for entry-level alternatives. Maybe I'll keep it forever, maybe I won't... but purchase price and/or age has zero to do with whether I bond with, and keep, an instrument or not.
-
I like Godin for the quality and seeming integrity of the company.
If you're going Chinese, I prefer Eastman over Loar.
I like Epiphone best for inexpensive jazz guitars.
-
I'm with you on that... Originally Posted by ruger9
...BUT....
Vintage guitars are, in some cases, different.
For instance, top thickness.
My '59 ES-125-T sounds great (for a thinline !) probably because of "thinness" of the top, and the good set-up I gave it with 12-52 round wound. And I love this neck. And I love this P-90 ....
If an ES-125 (without "T") sounds proportionally to body depth as good as my ES-125-T, that must fill your bill and for sure "have a pleasant unplugged sound as well as being electric"
YMMV
-
> Vintage does not automatically = better.
In this case it does.
-
Oh, no disagreement here- "different", certainly. "Better" or "wrote", depends. And of course is also a matter of personal preference. Originally Posted by 339 in june
If I ran across a vintage ES125 (or vintage ANYTHING) that I fell in love with, I'd buy it. But the fact that it was vintage would have nothing to do with it. The fact that I fell in love with it is all that would matter. New, old, big name, boutique name, no name, I don't care nearly as much as I used to. If I dig it, I dig it. If I don't, I don't.
If I dig a $400 used Godin over a $500 used Peerless-made Epi, the reputation of Peerless is irrelevant. If I played a $600 new Godin next to a $1000 vintage ES125 that was a dog, I'd pick the Godin. I've played Martins that guys pulled out of their closet "wait until you play THIS guitar.. a VINTAGE MARTIN D-whatever, it was my grandfathers, and it sounds UNBELIEVABLE").....
Woof woof. Neck is twisted, action is a mile off the board, strings are rusty, sounds like a cigar box strung with baling wire. Actual personal experience.
-
No, it doesn't. It just means old. See my Martin experience above. Originally Posted by nopedals
Charlie Christian wasn't playing "vintage" instruments.
-
I was extremely dissapointed with the 2 Loar 309's I tried. Awful guitars, in every way imaginable.
I still think the Godin represents the best budget vintage vibe available. But they are pretty different from a 125, even though they look similar.
Finding a good 125 can be tough. II've tried, believe me.
-
The Loar LH301T is not bad and v.cheap to buy. the two I tried had ok neck angles, etc, but just didn't quite do it for me. Used to have a 50s ES125 which was nice but, that didn't stay either!
-
The Kingpin's bridge is Tusq. Brighter than wood with a nice clarity. If you're going to change it out - measure first as the hole spacing is not the same as a Gibson ABR-1 style bridge (or my ES-175's wood bridge). it's close, to get an ABR-1 on the Godin I used a drill to slightly open the holes on the ABR-1. The ABR-1 could be pressed on without drilling, but was too tight to properly adjust height with the thumbwheels. A wood bridge should be much mellower than the Tusq.
IME Goding has pretty good QC, I spoke with them about 10 years ago and they claim each guitar gets a 45 minute setup (which is 44 minutes more than Gibson). I've always been impressed by the new Godin's I've owned.
-
I made this decision a couple years ago and have happily been playing a loar ever since. True, the QC isn't as good (I have a Godin Classical) but although the burst isn't perfect the guitar sounds and plays great after a good set up. I found the Godin neck too thin for my taste as I prefer something chunky. Unplugged the Loar puts out much more than the Godins that I tried. I have the 300 and had an aftermarket P90 installed (I simply can not stand having volume and tone controls drilled through the top of my guitar, I'm weird) So i can't speak to the two as far as electronics. That said, I'm still considering a Godin to have in the stable, I like the guitar, but the Loar suited my needs better at the time.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Yeah, Jeff- was hoping you'd chime in. I've read your previous reviews, and that you haven't played a good one yet. Liar QC must be all over the map, as I've also read/seen/heard some glowing reviews.... they've been out for awhile now, maybe the QC has been upped?
I also know they aren't a 125, looking more for size, form factor, single P90, pleasing acoustic tone even tho it's really more of an electric, etc....
-
Why did you sell the 125? After all, it was a VINTAGE guitar, and we all know that VINTAGE= awesomer than anything else, period Originally Posted by bananafist
-
I think the Loar is just hit or miss. I had a 600, it was pretty good QC wise, sounded great, in the end I couldn't get along with the neck shape. Originally Posted by ruger9
Those 309's I played were so bad, they soured me on the model completely. Same for the Eastman 371 I played the same day, but again, you'll see lots of people like theirs. My experience is only mine, but it did strike me that BOTH were bad.
-
> VINTAGE guitar, and we all know that VINTAGE= awesomer
depends on the guitar
-
I would also second the Godin. The fit and finish on mine (Kingpin II) is flawless, as they have been on pretty well every Godin I've played. I had one previously that had an issue, but was able to exchange it for a new one and have had no problems since. You can get a really nice electric sound out of the P90, and though the acoustic tone is nothing to write home about, it's more than enough for couch practicing.
If you excuse the playing, here is a thread of me trying to get a CC type of sound. (You could probably do better with a tube). It also features Jeff rocking his Kingpin.
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...-out-cube.html
Like some others, I haven't met a Loar I could get along with. I really like the vintagey look and sound, but they are just not very comfortable or well set-up guitars in my experience. I've also found Eastman to vary quite widely in terms of quality.
-
That video of Jeff using the different picks is awesome! Great tone too... sounds Christian-y to me, even thru a solid state modeler.... Originally Posted by Jehu
-
Loar and Godin are apples and oranges in my opinion. Loars are generally speaking, affordable carved top guitars, made in China. Godin, well at least the 5th Avenue line is a laminated guitar, Canadian made, which really is built for electric use. Both are great value.
I think of the 'acoustic' 5th Avenue as being like a blank canvas to fit whatever pickup you wish to, in my case I opted for a floating CC pickup made by Pete Biltoft.
My Godin is a very well made guitar, acoustically sounds ok to practise on at home, but it's really too tinny and quiet to consider using as an acoustic guitar. My only criticism is that I don't really like the 16" radius fingerboard, I'm more used to a 12" radius, as found on Gibson etc. It still is very nice to play though, I know many people prefer flatter fingerboards.
-
Yeah, but we're comparing the Kingpin and 309. Very similar idea.
Reply With Quote
Repairing The Covering On a Vintage Guitar Case
Today, 05:21 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos