Godin Composer vs Godin Jazz

**lindydanny** · 09-27-2015, 09:16 AM

I'm looking at getting another GAS statistic out of the way. I'm settling in on my final decision, but I'm having trouble committing.

What I'm Wanting to Accomplish:
I want a swing box for playing acoustic, old timey swing and folk music. My current project is a group called Dust Bowl Caravan. A lot of moving chord patterns and taking leads off of a rhythm steel player. When plugged in, I want good sound that is just a louder, more bitten version of before. I know that it won't be like going from acoustic dreadnaught to plugged in, but something like that. Woody might be the right word to use.

So, just between the Godin Composer and the Godin Jazz, what would be the better pick?

Also, I'd entertain something else just to get a good second idea.

~Danny

**mr. beaumont** · 09-27-2015, 09:25 AM

Neither, they are electric guitars. Nice ones, too.

What you're asking for is not accomplished by an electric guitar, but of the two, the jazz will have a brighter plugged in voice. Neither will be very loud unplugged, but i do find the 5th avenue line in general sounds pleasant unplugged.

You might look into a gypsy jazz guitar, with a soundboard pickup like a k&k. Loar and Eastman are also options.

**GodinFan** · 09-27-2015, 09:47 AM

Ditto on what Jeff said; you want an acoustic archtop. Loar's 600 or 700 model, some of the Eastmans. Lots of others, including vintage instruments. If you're determined to go Godin, the plain 5th Avenue with a K&K Definity pickup.

in fact, on K&K's site, they demo the pickup with a Loar 300.

destinytot · 09-27-2015, 09:59 AM

Godin 5th Avenue + AKG C516 mini-condenser clip-on mic = a cheap & cheerful little earful.

"Buy right or buy twice"... I'm resigned to buying twice because of price (and because my next small-bodied acoustic archtop will be either another custom Sonntag or someone's well-loved pre-war Gibson).

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2015, 10:52 AM

I have a Kingpin and use it in an acoustic covers group - it's not a true steel string acoustic but can sound pretty good in that context (and also in straight ahead or more modern jazz settings). It's a very versatile guitar (mine has an humbucker instead of a p90 though).

**mr. beaumont** · 09-27-2015, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Godin 5th Avenue + AKG C516 mini-condenser clip-on mic = a cheap & cheerful little earful.

"Buy right or buy twice"... I'm resigned to buying twice because of price (and because my next small-bodied acoustic archtop will be either another custom Sonntag or someone's well-loved pre-war Gibson).

Sounds great! Any feedback issues? Where do you point the mic?

**lindydanny** · 09-27-2015, 11:27 AM

I was thinking of the Loar for a while. I have an LH-200 (small body acoustic) and I love that thing. Put an M80 on the sound hole and it sings.

The only reason the LH-600/700 wasn't a contender thus far was fear of bad quality. There was a year or so there where people were saying that they were getting shotty quality out of them. I'd venture a guess that the quality on the upper models is much better.

I may have overstated my needs when pugged in... Acoustic sound it great, but what I'm thinking is more the old style of D'armond Rhythm Chief of Guitar Mics (I have one of those not being used...).

A buddy here in KC has got it on the head for the sound I am looking for. He uses a '50s Kay 17" body with a Rhythm Chief on a stick. He plays a lot acoustic (up against a ukulele, so volume isn't an issue), but also plays a lot plugged in. His duo is called Victor and Penny and worth a look.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-27-2015, 11:38 AM

You put an old DeArmond on anything and it will sound good.

I have an old Kay with a DeArmond as well. It's a beast to play (world's fattest neck combined with world's tiniest frets) but it sounds great.

The Loar 600 is a great "raw materials" guitar. It might need some work to get it into playing shape, but as long as the neck angle is good, it's all serviceable. I had one, but in the end the V shaped neck just wasn't comfortable for me in longer playing sessions.

Going back to the godins...I'm guessing this gives us an idea of your budget?

**lindydanny** · 09-27-2015, 12:33 PM

Yeah. I'm hoping to hover close to that $1,000 budget or lower. Guild makes the Savoy which seems nice and get's nice acoustic reviews. Never played one, though, so I stand off a bit on it...

My best would be something that is a bit ready to go. Outside of paying a bit for proper setup (or even doing it myself), I'd like to avoid a substantial shop time before it's playable.

**powerwagonjohn** · 09-27-2015, 01:06 PM

Try the Guild Savoy, it's a great guitar for the price and may get the sound your looking for. great build quality and really lively even with the laminated and poly finished top. plus you get the de Armond too. Win win.
Thanks John

destinytot · 09-27-2015, 01:09 PM

I've tried to show the Godin 5th Ave by comparing it with a hand-made semi with a solid top, back and sides. I've also tried to explain why I like the AKG C516 clip-on mic and how I use it.
<a href="https://youtu.be/e2AEkYDaLms" target="_blank">

**rabbit** · 09-27-2015, 02:53 PM

You mentioned this guitar so I thought you might want to be informed (I've no dog in this):

Godin 5th Avenue Jazz Guitar - Black : Bananas At Large

I'm ignorant and I know it. But, I do own a Godin 5th Ave., a Guild Savoy A-150 (the current,
Korean one) an Eastman 371 and some other more interesting stuff. I do NOT own a "Premium" guitar.

The Eastman is maple on maple and you might find it interesting for your described goal. It has
a nice neck, too. Worth looking at even if it isn't exactly what you requested.

The Godin 5th Ave., as destinytot asserts, KILLS for what it costs, is not precious and you could
add a new knock-off DeArmond floater (from Guild) for less in total than for the price of either of the other two
guitars I mentioned. (Yes, I may do it myself one day.) Beefiest neck profile of these three, but not bad.
Mine weighs 4.5 lbs, the lightest of these three, remarkable and worth considering for that.

The Savoy has a SOLID pressed top and is my favorite of the three. My fretting hand loves it and
it just feels great when you strike the strings.

Its fun to gather info, to daydream & speculate but you'll only know by handling the merch.

I don't play out (hell you can't call what I do playing) so I can't address feedback issues.

Best of luck & enjoy the trip

**GodinFan** · 09-27-2015, 04:42 PM

Alternately, this Gretsch would seem to fit the bill:

G9555 New Yorker? Archtop with Pickup | Acoustic Guitars | Gretsch® Guitars

**jazzbow** · 09-27-2015, 05:45 PM

I played a Gretsch New Yorker with the DeArmond and it sounded dead on for jazz but it doesn't bite with the flatwounds it's shipped with unless you add a bit of valve type grit.

I've also tried the non pickup equipped Gretsch with bronze strings and it sounds dead on for mid frequency twang and bite. But of the three I have tried two had low fret buzzing issues that would need re-setting.

As Mr B said, you should try a Selmer type guitar with the smaller sound hole. They're very loud, mid frequ heavy with a very crisp top end. Different pick attack on the string will net you some great tone too.

**lindydanny** · 09-27-2015, 07:17 PM

I've toyed with getting a gypsy guitar for a while, but after borrowing one for a gig last week I've concluded it is not for me. Hence my new delema.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-27-2015, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by GodinFan

Alternately, this Gretsch would seem to fit the bill:

G9555 New Yorker? Archtop with Pickup | Acoustic Guitars | Gretsch® Guitars

Personally, i think the Gretsch reissue jazzboxes are awful guitars...

**Longways to Go** · 09-27-2015, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Godin 5th Avenue + AKG C516 mini-condenser clip-on mic = a cheap & cheerful little earful.

"Buy right or buy twice"... I'm resigned to buying twice because of price (and because my next small-bodied acoustic archtop will be either another custom Sonntag or someone's well-loved pre-war Gibson).

I think you would sound great in this context through a good ole flat top too.

**bohemian46** · 09-28-2015, 12:44 AM

"Personally, i think the Gretsch reissue jazzboxes are awful guitars..."

Ditto, however I think you are being overly polite.

**entresz** · 09-28-2015, 12:58 AM

I'm not hugely keen on the Gretsch reissue archtops either, the Godin 5th Avenue is a similar price and kills them (I have one).
I do however have a G400 Synchromatic, that is an amazing guitar. It's in a totally different league to the current range of Gretsch archtops. It's a shame they have been discontinued, I don't think they were all that popular. Both acoustically and amplified it sounds great. The 'pressed solid' top works well on this instrument. Gretsch doesn't have much of jazz guitar reputation (although they did make some very nice jazz guitars), most of the jazz players look elsewhere, and the rockabilly players don't want jazz style archtops.

If I was to upgrade to a better guitar the next step up would be a Heritage carved top... as for pressed top or laminated top instruments, it's as good as you could get in my opinion.

..... back on track to Godins...

I really like my 5th Avenue. I don't think it's great acoustically contrary to what others have said, compared to my Gretsch or my old Hofner for example. I have fitted a Vintage Vibe Charlie Christian pickup to it, that sounds great and plugged in it gets a very authentic pre-war electric guitar sound. The fit and finish of the guitar is great.

**D.G.** · 09-28-2015, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by lindydanny

I was thinking of the Loar for a while. I have an LH-200 (small body acoustic) and I love that thing. Put an M80 on the sound hole and it sings.

The only reason the LH-600/700 wasn't a contender thus far was fear of bad quality. There was a year or so there where people were saying that they were getting shotty quality out of them. I'd venture a guess that the quality on the upper models is much better.

I may have overstated my needs when pugged in... Acoustic sound it great, but what I'm thinking is more the old style of D'armond Rhythm Chief of Guitar Mics (I have one of those not being used...).

A buddy here in KC has got it on the head for the sound I am looking for. He uses a '50s Kay 17" body with a Rhythm Chief on a stick. He plays a lot acoustic (up against a ukulele, so volume isn't an issue), but also plays a lot plugged in. His duo is called Victor and Penny and worth a look.

I'm old college friends with Jeff and Erin, and did a gig with them out here in Portland a couple years ago. At least at the time Jeff was actually running his guitar through a re-housed tube screamer for the compression and break-up. It's a surprisingly good sound, though nowhere near what I would call an "acoustic" tone

I wasn't terribly impressed with the acoustic sound of his guitar, but I suppose it's serviceable. Course, I use a gyspy guitar most of the time and it'll stomp pretty much any archtop you put up against it for volume and projection

Personally, having struggled with a very similar need, I'd go with a Godin Kingpin with the p90. That's a very trad sound, but keep in mind the amp will play a large part in what you get. Also, in live performance, you can use a mic on the guitar and another on the amp and blend the sound in the FOH. I did that last Sat on a noisy dance gig with my gypsy guitar and it worked pretty well.

Gypsy guitars can work, but they can also be a serious problem to amplify and still capture their unique voice.

**lindydanny** · 09-28-2015, 08:30 PM

All this said, I came across a steal on a Godin Composer. About 62% of street, new. I couldn't pass it up. I think between my LH-200 for acoustic stuff and finding the right bite with the new one I bet I'll be very happy.