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so, i got an all original '66 Gibson 175. I currently own an '88-'89 175 with mahogany back and sides but ever since I got my '63 Kessel I wondered if the '60s 175 would smoke the '88 since my kessel sure does. Well, I got the '66 and it sounds great but very different. Not nearly as thunky as my '88 and doesn't have the thump in the low mids. It's also more prone to feedback. As it's almost 2x the price of my '88 and needs a refret some pickup work I decided to stick with the '89.
I can provide more detail if folks are interested.
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09-08-2015 08:32 PM
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Sure, it's interesting, fire away with details... I have a '63 single pickup ES-175 that weighs about 5 lbs 10 oz and is very responsive. Definitely a different guitar from any modern 175 (save the newer VOS models). It had to be refretted and re-nutted but I'm sure glad I did. It plays great now. Has a very slim neck front to back, and a fairly narrow nut (not post-'65 narrow, but not a full 1 11/16" either).
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Always interested in your assessments - let's hear more. (Thanks!)
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well, it definitely sounds more like a jim hall era guitar (much like my '57 did). It's got more acoustic response to it but doesn't have the vibe of my '63 Kessel with the burstbucker pro pickups. It's brighter than the kessel and my '89. It's a little closer to the sound of a carved top. The top seems to have a more prounounced arch than the '89. The neck is slimmer but does have the 1 11/16 nut width. It's a lighter guitar too.
The '89 just has a low mid thump to it that makes me think of the characteristic 175 tone though obviously Joe Pass and Metheny did much of their playing on the early '60s instruments so maybe they vary a bit more than I had realized. OTOH, this guitar sounds very similar to the '57 I had though the '57 had burstbucker pickups...
Kind of hard to evaluate them in a way because the buzzing is pretty pronounced. I got it for what I consider the top of the scale dealer price so I was unwilling to put another $300 into it for the refret and pickup re-wiring.
For me, when I want the '60s jazz guitar sound, the kessel easily sounds better than the '66 175, and my '89 175 out thunks the '66 so for me, I think it's time to just scale back and enjoy having the best guitars I've ever owned in my life:
1) '63 Kessel
2) '89 175
3) Heritage Eagle Classic
Selling the rest except for a tele and strat.
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I had a 68 that had a 1 9/16 nut. It did not work for me. I have a 63 that has a full 1 11/16 nut. It is my understanding that sometime in 1965 Gibson went to 1 5/8, sometime in 1966 they went to 1 9/16 and that in early 1969 they went back to 1 11/16.
My 63 has a slim neck front to back and is very resonant. My 97 has a fuller (but not as thick as the Gibson historic 50's necks) neck and is darker and more feedback resistant. If I could only keep one it would be the 97.
I have also had 175's from 1970, 1977, 1982 and 2004. I like the 97 better than all of them.
@ Jack Are you sure it is a 66?
@ Roger Are you sure yours is a 63 if it does not have a 1 11/16 nut? My 63 does for sure....
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So the "Classic" edged out a superb specimen of an L5 Wes model...very interesting.
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Oh man... The nut is exactly between 5/8 and 11/16, or 21/32". The serial # is either 1963 or 1967 according to the usual sources, but the label lacks "Union Made." Normally that would be indicative of '63 between those two years. However, the Kluson tuners are the double line, double ring type - which is supposedly later. Could be a 1967! What a mystery...
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Luckily '67 is my birth year and I also have a 335 from that year, so if that's the case I won't be distraught. However, the neck on my 335 is very chunky from front to back despite a legitimate 1 9/16" nut, and that guitar has the Union Made label.
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the serial # dater shows it to be either a '66 or '69 so it very well could be a '69 Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
doesn't sound like it quite yet, but only he knows for sure...
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@Jack, I would bet that with the full size nut, yours is a 69
@ Roger, My 63 has the double ring, single line tuners and no union made on the label. I would bet yours is from a later year
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"Oh man... The nut is exactly between 5/8 and 11/16, or 21/32". The serial # is either 1963 or 1967 according to the usual sources, but the label lacks "Union Made.""
didn't you say it has an orig paf? if so, there's no way it's a '67.
the latest I've seen them is in '66, but that is very, very rare, and only w/gold plated pafs
never even seen a nickel paf from '65 or '64 for that matter.
and as I said in another thread, I've seen plenty of pre '65 Gibsons w/ the 21/32" nut width.
also the color of a sunburst '63 and '67 Gibson are very different.Last edited by wintermoon; 09-08-2015 at 10:45 PM.
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No, wintermoon - this 175 has a patent # pickup. I used to own a 1957 blonde with two PAFs.
I'm still going with '63 due to the NON-Union Made label, the slim neck, and the burst shade.
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Roger, getting my 63 out to look at the label and the tuners made me plug it in and play a few tunes. What a sweet axe! Next to my 97 it is my favorite compared to all the others that I have had.
Mine has replaced pickups, so I am guessing that it had PAF's at one time. Perhaps my 63 is earlier than yours?
My serial number is 102267 What is yours?Last edited by Stringswinger; 09-08-2015 at 10:50 PM.
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no, it did. but they are different beasts. The L5 is an electric guitar. It's a more modern sounding instrument than the heritage. The heritage sounds more like a '60s Gibson carved top. The heritage nails the early martino sound like he got on El Hombre. Originally Posted by wintermoon
The '96 Wes is way thicker and electric sounding and not nearly as resonant. The heritage is a much lighter build. However, the wes plays way better. It's a hot rod.
I still prefer the plywood guitars though and I may end up just keeping the 175 and Kessel. I think all these other guitars I may move out though I'm considering taking the Heritage to my repairman to install the pickguard this weekend. If I do that it's staying...
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My serial is 100067 and yes, what a sweet axe! Here's mine:
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a thunkless job
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beaut! Originally Posted by rpguitar
My serial is 100067 and yes, what a sweet axe! Here's mine:
nickel t.p.?
= pre '66
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1950's Gibson Kluson Tuner Variations
My tuners are version 6
Roger, my guitar has a later serial number than yours and most likely had PAF's (Why else would the original pickups be replaced?) Also my 68 had the same burst as yours. The Nickel tailpiece does make it interesting.... of course, zig-zag tailpieces did break and get replaced (possibly with an earlier part?). Hmmm...the mystery continues (I would think that if yours were a 67 though that it would have the 1 9/16 nut)
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a '67 will certainly have the narrow 1 9/16" nut Originally Posted by Stringswinger
extremely rare for a '63 Gibson w/nickel parts to have 2 pafs, usually only one if you're very lucky.
as to why they may have been swapped out, patent number Gibson aren't as valuable as pafs, but still very valuable.
many guitars that have been stripped of them regularly show up for sale, and some insist that some early pats sound as good as some pafs. probably right too, I have a 60s Gibson w/patent #s that smokes many paf guitars I've AB'd it with. of course there are many variables, AB'ing them in the same guitar being a prime example.
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@ Wintermoon My 63 has a chrome plated Patent sticker PUP in the neck position and a Chrome plated T-Top PUP in the bridge position. Maybe only the bridge PUP was a PAF and when it was swapped the previous owner changed the cover on the neck PUP to chrome to match the new bridge PUP?
If these vintage guitars could talk, what stories they would tell!
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It is a bit late in the day for me to get a good picture of my 63, but here is one anyway...
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Rogers old '57 (now mine)
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Ok, to add to the database re dates and significant 175 changes:
'65, 1 9/16th nut, Pat no pup., chrome zig zag, gold knobs. Changed but period correct TOM with 2 nylon saddles.
Great acoustic sound, not thunky, fed back v easily, great couch guitar, tiny neck but very easy to play.
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Interesting thread (love seeing the guitars!). My tailpiece appears to be chrome and the tuners are version 7 from the Kluson page. Those things would say '67. The neck is definitely 1 21/32" and skinny, totally different from my '67 ES-335 (1 9/16" and chunky). 175 label has no Union Made while 335 label does have that text.
Can't tell about the sunburst. I see numerous '63 and '67 examples using Google that look essentially the same.
I may have to pull a pot and check it... later though, not now before work, this is my playing time!Last edited by rpguitar; 09-09-2015 at 06:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by fws6
Rogers old '57 (now mine)
Very nice....so that guitar shipped from the US to Europe?
Playing and touching such a guitar would be a dream for me....
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