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Man, there's a guy somewhere around here who owns some super high end guitars and has been trying to sell them on CL (!) for at least a year. Included are:
Gibson Super LeGrande Archtop Jazz Guitar for $10500
GIBSON CITATION Acoustic Electric Archtop Jazz Guitar for $19750
Gibson Custom Shop Advanced Jumbo Concert Limited Edition Guitar for $5490
But get this, not a single one has every been played! The Citation "has been played only for tuning purposes, then displayed in a high-end collection." The LeGrande? Never played. The Gibson acoustic? "In absolutely New, Unplayed Condition."
Not gonna get philosophical about it and say "well what's the difference between this and a $10,000 painting you put on the wall to admire" or "what's the difference between this and a $10,000 comic that is slabbed by a grading company." My gut tells me this is somehow different. That it's somehow a slap in the face of the craftspeople who lovingly made these instruments. That even in a high-end collection the guitars are still meant to be played. That it's even offensive in a way.
Yeah, it's silly to be upset about this, guess I'm just in a ranting mood or somethin...
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07-07-2015 11:55 PM
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Nigel Tufnel: Look... still has the old tag on, never even played it.
Marty DiBergi: [points his finger] You've never played...?
Nigel Tufnel: Don't touch it!
Marty DiBergi: We'll I wasn't going to touch it, I was just pointing at it.
Nigel Tufnel: Well... don't point! It can't be played.
Marty DiBergi: Don't point, okay. Can I look at it?
Nigel Tufnel: No. no. That's it, you've seen enough of that one.
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So .... Your argument is that you have found someone selling three expensive guitars that he hasnt played, and thus "high end guitars are only for displaying" ?
What if I showed you some high end guitars with lots of playwear ?
Two minute ebay search and you ll also find dozens of sub $200 guitars that are being sold with zero hours playtime on them. Squier by Fender Standard Series Stratocaster w Tweed Hard Shell Case Mint | eBay
dos that mean that low end guitars arent played either ? So noone is playing guitar anymore at all ? a bit simplistic isnt it ?
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I met a guy a few years back that heard I played guitar...so mentioned that he also "plays".
He has quite a collection guitars, nothing in the 10k region!!, but quite a few Gibson and Fenders...
Turns out he can't play a note!
Just enjoys the ownership ...
I really don't get it!
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once I went to the columbus ohio guitar show and there was a '57 Les Paul which was being shown in the case with the lid open. Turned out, the owner was claiming that it had never been out of the case and was being solid at about 2x the going rate so it was being listed for $20,000. That was a while ago. That guitar would sell for over $25k today even out of the case.
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[I think the thread title is supposed to have a question mark rather than an exclamation.]
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In the first place a guitar is an instrument, a tool, sometimes it can be a work of art when it is designed and hand made by a luthier. A painting is usually to be displayed, a shinny vintage car could be driven or just for show...
Thing is, tools like any object, can serve a different purpose than what it was designed for and for instance, end up in pride exhibit halls or collections.
To be noted that these collections rarely have any inexpensive instrument and will usually feature high end and rare stuff.
So yes in that sense higher end instruments have more chances to end up for being displayed instead of played.
Doesn't mean ALL high end instruments are for display only.
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Sounds like you read the title of the post but not the content!
Originally Posted by fws6
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Seems to me that fws6 read the post accurately and responded well. There's probably a bit of a tone of annoyance in his reply . . because guys like he and I, who can be classified a bonafide collectors, get a bit miffed by the fact that every so often, someone deems it necessary to rag on those of us who collect guitars for purposes other than to use them as tools of the trade. I tend to get even a bit more annoyed . . and respond a bit more harshly. So, stand by.
If a guy buys a Citation with the intention of never playing a single note on it, keeping it in a case in a climate controlled room for thirty years in hopes it will triple in value . . . it's nobody's business but his own. If a guy buys a Citation and hangs it on a wall, or sits it in a stand for years as a part of his collection . . . and only plays it at his home sporadically . . . it's nobody's business but his own. For those of you who are *offended* by this, go ahead and commission a $60K Monteleone and take it to your gigs.
I find it amusing that it's only the people who could never afford such high end guitars, that complain, whine, moan and groan, bitch . . . or even rant . . as you saw fit to do for no good reason what so ever, about how these guitars are made as *instruments* that are "made to be played" . . . and that the luthiers would be offended if they ended up in collections. That's total bullshit. I could blow three of my fingers off of each hand with 4th of July fireworks, and still be able to count on my hands how many full time jazz guitarists buy $30K to $50K arch top guitars to gig with. Yet, the Benedettos, Monteleones, Lacys, Manzers and others of the arch top builders' world keep pumpin' them out. Do you think for one New York minute they give a rats ass whether their guitars, which truly are works of art, are gigged or become part of someone's high profile colection? There isn't a more wealthy jazz guitarist than George Benson anywhere on the planet. He has a wonderful guitar collection . . . but regularly gigs with guitars he gets comp'd from Ibanez. Do you think for one moment that GB regularly plays all of the very high end arch tops in his collection? John Monteleone was beaming from ear to ear when his Four Seasons were on display at The Metropolitan Museum of Art. I'm pretty sure the other living luthiers were equally proud that their works were there also.
What kind of a guitar do YOU play, zdub? Is it some low end, low cost arch top that's more than sufficient to do what you need it to do? If so, then that's great, with no need for anything better. But, I'm sure you'll never hear a high end guitar collector say anything to the effect of . . . "what a disservice and an insult it is to the genre of jazz music that this guy would play jazz standards on a $1,000 guitar.
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Sorry but that's bullshit. I can afford them and still think they should be played but I have no problem if someone else wants to just collect them and keep them in primo condition. Originally Posted by Patrick2
I think it's funny that the guys who collect and don't play guitar much have the strongest opinions of what is or what isn't jazz.
<said, tongue-in-cheek>
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Just because I don't drive well doesn't mean I can't drive a Mercedes. I love my guitars. I play them. I look at them as if they are a piece of art and I take care of them, as I want them to be around me for a long time.Name me an oil painting or statue that you can play Moonlight in Vermont on. We all enjoy them for different reasons.
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IMHO, if someone spends on high end guitar(s), its entirely up to him/her what to do with them. Me, I don't play particularly well, but I do play my archtops. Still, I very much enjoy just the sight of a pretty archtop.
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I like that analogy with car, in both case you can drive or play an expensive luxury good even if you are not a professional, as you can keep it in the garage or its case to pamper it and only take it out once in a while for showing it up.
Last edited by vinlander; 07-08-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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I believe that musical instruments have a unique personality and a "soul".
I can imagine how sad those beautiful instruments must feel, knowing that they will never be played.
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there are many ways to enjoy a guitar and collecting is certainly one of them. I cannot say I understand why someone would be upset over a fine instrument that is not being played, and I hardly think the builders take it as a slap in the face. The good news is that there is now potential for a player with means to purchase the mint instrument and proceed to play the heck out of it, which could be very satisfying to the right person.
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What a buyer does with his or her guitars is none of my bidness ...
If everyone who bought a high end guitar was required to play at a level worthy of the guitar
most, if not all, of our favorite guitar makers, big and small, would be out of business in short order ... and we'd all be ordering guitars from China ....
not that the Chinese can't build good guitars when they want to
But while his guitars may have never been played .... they've still been "driven off the lot"
and I could probably find better deals on new versions of those models than his asking prices
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I have more problem when a legendary player's instrument is not going in the right hand to continue living but ends up instead in some glass case like an exposed deceased...
Century years old violin and cello are still being played by classical musicians (even if many are still owned by rich mécènes)
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I collect luggage. I like the ones with wheels.
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I am both a player and a collector. My vintage D'Angelicos get taken out on gigs. I know other players who cannot afford high end guitars and do quite fine on lower end professional grade guitars. I have met some collectors who do not play very well, but enjoy owning guitars as works of art. Guitars can be both tools and art. I think we should all have the freedom to use our guitars as we wish.
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07-08-2015, 12:04 PM #20Dutchbopper Guest
Though I own a few nice guitars, I'd get rid of any guitar I did not play. Playing them is so much more fun than owning them. Besides, any %$#@& with some money can own a fancy guitar. It's hardly an achievement, is it?
DB
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Any one think about asset allocation when buying these? Unfortunately everything I read tells me violins are much better investment. (Never checked on accordians. :-) )
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Probably a good time to get out of bouzoukis. Originally Posted by DanielleOM
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Never expected such vitriol at what I admitted was a "silly response" and concluded that I was just in a "rantin' mood". But you make some good points and I'm sorry that you were so offended by my post.
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These topics pop once in a while, so does the "this is the quintessential jazz guitar tone".
It is normal human behavior to try to justify oneself or get validation and approval of the peers.
If you have been here long enough you can tell who will reply what but still, there is always room for discussion.
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I will probably never own a guitar with a 5 digit price tag, just don't see the sense of it. Rag away if you must.
Point is I'll play anything that enters my cave and play it regularly. It's my conviction that that's what they were made for.
If someone chooses to turn it into furniture or art, so be it. Does not upset me but it does set cause for the WTF raised eyebrow.
Arch top, speaking from a car buffs p.o.v. please do not drive a Merc. Prius or something meant strictly as a conveyance. No eyebrow will be raised, but the tongue will be firmly lodged in cheek.
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