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The discussion on semi-hollows has been done to death on here and outside of here, and if anyone can point me to a thread in which my question is answered, that'd work just as well
As some might remember, I bought the Gibson ES-139 a few months ago. It's a wonderful guitar and I've used it for every gig I've had since; funk, rock, soul, fusion, the list goes on. After countless hours, I can finally get not only my favorite sound from a known guitarist(Robben Ford on "Yellowjackets"), but also my own, distinctive sound.
But! There's always a but...!
I'm asking if I could use it for "traditional" jazz, because my Ibanez's stock pickups just aren't cutting it on the big gigs, and I can't afford to swap the pickups.
I know a lot of people use 335's for the traditional-sounding jazz as well, but the ES-139 differs from these guitars; Single cutaway, smaller body, no sound holes, and Burstbucker pickups by Gibson. Even if I roll down the tone, the guitar still sound more "twangy" than I'd like.
Now, the concentrated question:
Is there some "secret" to getting the traditional jazz sound on a twangy semi-hollow? Is there perhaps a pedal I could use, and would swapping to flat wounds make a difference (without jeopardizing the fusion/rock/funk sound)?
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06-13-2015 04:09 PM
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No experience with Burstbuckers, but with Classic 57, roll down volume on guitar and tweak a little your amp settings, it'd help you to get the traditional jazz sound
No reason it'd be different with Burstbuckers.
But, on the other hand, I still wonder what is a traditional jazz sound !
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Heavier strings (don't know what you are using) would help, maybe a 12 set, they don't have to be flatwound.... I think Sco uses a 13 set and gets great tones, although not "traditional" jazz sound. Also a graphic or parametric eq where you can reduce the high end without losing the midrange might help. The tone control on the guitar usually takes out too much midrange for me.
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Right, I'll try EQ. I can't use 12's, I think it might make other styles too much of an issue.. As I say in the post, I get an excellent fusion sound(like Sco's) but am only looking for the traditional sound. I'm gonna try to see if I have any EQ pedals laying around =)
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I use flatwound 11's on my epi dot studio with the tone rolled down and amp set halfway at mid for bass, treble, and mid on the neck pickup. I and others are very pleased with my tone. It could pass for traditional jazz sound whatever that is. Maybe its your amp. I also use the low input there too. Twang free for me.
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glad someone brought up the question of the amp. What are you playing through?
I'm pretty sure an ES-139 -- like most Gibsons -- should jazz out just great.
And Burstbuckers are wonderful IMO!
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I changed to 12-52 flats for an all-out Jazz sound on several of my guitars (two of which are semis). But I also like the D'Addario half wounds which really do sit between flats and rounds in terms of tonality. They still have some brightness but not enough to really give you all the finger squeak. Furthermore, they have less tension than their round wound equivalents in the same gauges. I have a set of the half wound 11s on a chambered '78 Greco Les Paul and they almost feel like a set of round wound 9s in terms of tension; although they are smoother and beefier in tone than 9s.
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Just for grins, try turning amp treble and bass all the way down and mid a bit above halfway. Leave guitar tone and volume up about 7 or 8 or maybe even more.
Originally Posted by Frethack
Flattens out typical amp mid scoop and lets guitar dynamics and tone through.
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Originally Posted by Longways to Go
It greatly varies... Fender Superchamp XD, Roland Cube 30, Peavey Classic 30, Blackstar HT 40, Bogner Alchemist 112, Peavey Stereo Chorus 212.
I agree, I love the Burstbuckers. Fantastic for west-coast style fusion (like LC or Sco) because of the vintage "recipe".
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I've personally never been able to achieve a traditional jazz tone out of a solid body set up for fusion, blues or rock. I found the opposite more tangible. When I had my 175 it was fairly easy to get a good blues or fusion tone from it while still set up for jazz.
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the only way you can get a traditional jazz tone out of a semi-hollow guitar is to put heavier strings on it IMO. Regarding .012s, adam rogers uses a modified set of .012s on his solidbodies and semis and does all kinds of session work where he plays fusion, rock, funk, etc. so it can be done.
Here's what he uses on his 335.
(Round wound) 049 038 028 018 016 013. So i think he's taking the XL115 strings and replacing the top two strings.
Last edited by jzucker; 06-14-2015 at 11:55 AM.
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I've tried that and IMO it sounds flat (no pun intended). I think the semihollow guitars need roundwounds on them to make the top vibrate more. I have never liked a 335 with flatwounds. I'm using .011s on my Eastman T386 and love it. Originally Posted by wildschwein
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in my very limited experience, flats work on a 335ish thing if it has a maple neck. hog neck = no flats. its just too oatmeal-y. but its been a long time since i've tried. Originally Posted by jzucker
since strings, amp and eq were already mentioned, and you aren't going to change the pickups... fat strings and different picks? different saddles? i'd also take a peek at the pots and caps, too. do you have 300k or 500k pots? maybe better caps or different values can let you roll of some highs more pleasantly without altering the "everything on 10" sounds. different pots might reveal a more useful taper to roll off highs and dull the attack slightly. but i can see you not wanting to change anything as it already works for everything else...
another thing that comes to mind would be figurative half flat strings, or literal half flats, as in three wound, three flat. i used flats on the skinny strings to smooth out the highs but keep the bass from getting flubby. you could do the opposite for warmer lows but keep the clear snappy highs for the rest of your gigs. depends on what and how you play, but its worth considering.
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Picks make a huge difference to the tone. For a fat, warm jazz sound get a D'Andrea Pro Plec. That would get you a lot closer to your goal than any pedal. Experiment with a whole bunch of different picks to match the sound you want in relation to what style you're playing.
It's entirely possible to get a full jazz sound using 11 rounds if you know how to pull a fat tone from the way you strike the strings with the pick.
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What's the amp?
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+1 on the D'Andrea Pro Plecs... huge difference in tone
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In general, if you're getting a "twangy" sound, you need to do something to boost the mids and tame the trebles. I play a semi strung with rounwound 10-46 strings, and at least for me, strings aren't the problem when it comes to warming up the tone. Adjusting the pick-ups, (overall height and individual pole-pieces), and tweaking amp controls to get more mid-range are what does it for me.
John
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Yeah they do reduce the high end quite a bit but I'm kind of all over the place with strings -- for rock stuff on solid bodies I generally like round wound 11s (although have used 8s and 9s quite a bit over the years). Have you dabbled in the half wounds? They do sit sonically in between the two and work well on the right guitars. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Here's an easy non-permanent tweak. Swap the tom out for an ebony (or rw) saddle. I first tried it back in the 80's and still do it today. Won't make your semi sound just like a hollow carved spruce top, but it's a definite improvement. (Assuming you also have heavier strings.) Eliminates much of that jangly sustain.
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I have. I never bonded with d'addario because the space in between the windings is not contoured. The edges are sharp and it tears at the pick and creates friction and somewhat of a grating sound and feel for me. This is related to the angle I hit the strings with the pick at I'm sure but they don't work for me. Originally Posted by wildschwein
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+1 on the half rounds. LaBella ground wounds had been good by my experience and while you're at it, try using the pickup height adjustment screws and lower the pickup away from the strings. Costs nothing and the difference can be dramatic. good luck
David
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I use TI Swing series 12's on my 335 and get a fine jazz tone with either my RE/Clarus rig or my vintage Fender Deluxe Reverb.
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I will. My bad for stopping when it was getting good. I tweak around a bit, but have not tried that yet. Thanks. Originally Posted by boatheelmusic
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I have 1 Ultra Plec that I covet but I don't think they make them anymore. Originally Posted by 3625
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The easiest tweak you can make is to your expectations of what a "traditional" jazz sound is
On my Teles, I use roundwound 11's with a plain 3rd. I find that if I turn down the tone about halfway and mildly alter my attack (a lot less of it!) I'll get a good "jazz" tone. I use a Wegen 2.5mm pick.
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