Playing jazz on a semi-hollow guitar?

[Doctor Jeff]

A couple of things to try--some mentioned before:

--Flatwounds
--Pure nickel rounds are mellower than chromes if you like rounds
--I use D'Addario 11's but I have heard that TI strings have less tension than other strings, so may be more comfortable to use (I have no personal experience)
--Change pick
--Lower pickup height, raise action
--Add some more reverb and a touch of chorus--that "spreads out" the high end tones IMO
--Play with fingertips for jazz--nails or no nails--or play with thumb like WM and GB

I have always fingerpicked with nails, coming from a classical background. I am now using my thumb quite a bit, but it takes a lot of getting used to. I don't yet have that big Wes callus.

If you're using the SCXD try the Jazzmaster voice.

Anyway, I had an Epiphone Dot once upon a time and never got the sound I wanted, though I was pretty inexperienced with setup at the time. I realize the 139 is a different guitar. Some guitars just have too much bass and twang, not enough middle.

[s1track3d]

Here's an easy non-permanent tweak. Swap the tom out for an ebony (or rw) saddle. I first tried it back in the 80's and still do it today. Won't make your semi sound just like a hollow carved spruce top, but it's a definite improvement. (Assuming you also have heavier strings.) Eliminates much of that jangly sustain.

So the whole TOM bridge? doesn't this introduce intonation issues, since the placement is fixed via the mounting screws?

[jzucker]

someone said earlier that flats work on a maple neck semi but not mahogany...I just wanted to mention that flats on my 339 sounded great but awful on my 137 so that's opposite of what I have experienced...

[Patrick2]

I'm sure it's just me, but I can't play a semi without automatically going for some sort of ornamentation. I know it's a discipline thing, but, I just seem to let it happen. Tried flat wounds on my 535s and 335s. Hated them. Took them off after a week . . . went back to .011 wounds.

IMO, a semi set up for jazz . . . sounds like a semi set up for jazz. It just doesn't sound "right" to me, when playing in a bop-ish mode.

[snoskier63]

The idea that flats wound strings are only for jazz can't be more wrong. Flats are commonly used for blues, and in fact I find flats to be much better for blues and rock on my Guild Aristocrat and Starfire VI than round wounds. They just happen to be great for jazz as well.

I just finished playing jazz on my Aristocrat, and with the volume and tone controls on my guitar cut a bit it sounded great! It will never sound like my Artist Award, but if it did there would be no reason to make different styles of guitars. Don't worry about emulating a vintage Archtop, and focus on getting a tone that sounds good to you.

[Patrick2]

The idea that flats wound strings are only for jazz can't be more wrong. Flats are commonly used for blues, and in fact I find flats to be much better for blues and rock on my Guild Aristocrat and Starfire VI than round wounds. They just happen to be great for jazz as well.

I just finished playing jazz on my Aristocrat, and with the volume and tone controls on my guitar cut a bit it sounded great! It will never sound like my Artist Award, but if it did there would be no reason to make different styles of guitars. Don't worry about emulating a vintage Archtop, and focus on getting a tone that sounds good to you.

Not sure if this was in response to my post.?.? But, it immediately followed so I thought it might be. If it was, I never said that flat wounds couldn't be used for anything other than jazz. I said I didn't like them for anything other than jazz . . . only straight ahead/bop/standards type jazz. I've returned to round wounds quite a long time ago on my semis. I only use my semis when playing smooth jazz, fusion, Larry Carlton type *jazz*.

[snoskier63]

Not sure if this was in response to my post.?.? But, it immediately followed so I thought it might be. If it was, I never said that flat wounds couldn't be used for anything other than jazz. I said I didn't like them for anything other than jazz . . . only straight ahead/bop/standards type jazz. I've returned to round wounds quite a long time ago on my semis. I only use my semis when playing smooth jazz, fusion, Larry Carlton type *jazz*.

My post had nothing to do with yours, the sequence was simply coincidental. I was responding to the OP's question of swapping to flats, and if so would that jeopardize fusion/rock/funk sound. My reply was flats may enhance tone with other styles...in my opinion, of course.

[Woody Sound]

So the whole TOM bridge? doesn't this introduce intonation issues, since the placement is fixed via the mounting screws?

I've tried it on four different guitars since the 80's, and it always worked out. Maybe I just lucked out(?) Just get a compensated wood saddle. Loosen the strings enough to slip off the tom. Replace with the wooden saddle. Adjust the action with the thumbwheels. I don't have a closeup pic right now, but here's a full size shot.

[s1track3d]

I've tried it on four different guitars since the 80's, and it always worked out. Maybe I just lucked out(?) Just get a compensated wood saddle. Loosen the strings enough to slip off the tom. Replace with the wooden saddle. Adjust the action with the thumbwheels. I don't have a closeup pic right now, but here's a full size shot.

I can see it. Thanks, interesting approach, I like it! So would you say it's provides a little more 'wood' and keeps the sustain? or does it cut sustain as well? I have heard that nylon saddles tend to mellow the sound out a little too but this seems like something else.

[jzucker]

none of the classic blues players, BB King, Freddie King, Albert King, Hubert Sumlin, Jimi, Stevie, Bonamassa used flats. Flats don't bend right or sustain right IMO.

I'd try the Adam Rogers setup. That's the best setup and allows you to play funk , jazz, rock, etc.

[Woody Sound]

I can see it. Thanks, interesting approach, I like it! So would you say it's provides a little more 'wood' and keeps the sustain? or does it cut sustain as well? I have heard that nylon saddles tend to mellow the sound out a little too but this seems like something else.

Well it's hard to describe, but yes, it adds a little bit of wooden archtop "bark." Just a little. Give it a try, it's cheap, easy, and completely reversible if you don't like it.

[jkstigma]

my es335 with Thomastik Bebob 0.12 strings
sounds and feel Jazz to me

pick 1.5mm

[snoskier63]

And the only folks who think the blues greats ever used flats are D'Addairo.

I don't think anyone specifically stated that the blues greats use flats, but simply that flats can work very well for other genres besides jazz, including blues.

But now that you mention it, Duke Robillard uses Chromes 10's. He plays jazz, but is primarily a blues guitarist, and a very good one at that. Beyond that I don't know much about the strings various guitarists use. If I'm not mistaken, round wound strings weren't around until some time in the 1960's, so all blues and rock before that was played with flats. Which strings sound best also depends on the guitar. I use flats on my Starfire, Aristocrat and X-500 (all used for jazz, blues, and rock), but on my Artist Award (only used for jazz) I use rounds. I have tried many different strings on each, but these are what sound and play best to me. I'm no blues great, but I do consider my ear to be pretty good even though my playing is mediocre at best.

[wildschwein]

I don't think anyone specifically stated that the blues greats use flats, but simply that flats can work very well for other genres besides jazz, including blues.

But now that you mention it, Duke Robillard uses Chromes 10's. He plays jazz, but is primarily a blues guitarist, and a very good one at that. Beyond that I don't know much about the strings various guitarists use. If I'm not mistaken, round wound strings weren't around until some time in the 1960's, so all blues and rock before that was played with flats. Which strings sound best also depends on the guitar. I use flats on my Starfire, Aristocrat and X-500 (all used for jazz, blues, and rock), but on my Artist Award (only used for jazz) I use rounds. I have tried many different strings on each, but these are what sound and play best to me. I'm no blues great, but I do consider my ear to be pretty good even though my playing is mediocre at best.

Yeah it's true -- a lot of string gauges and types we take for granted today weren't around until sometime in the '60s. Before that what we would now call heavy strings, often made with Monel alloys, were the common items and were used by players of all genres. Not sure if they were flats though, or how and when flats became available. We all know the stories about guys like Clapton, Page and Burton adding a banjo string and then chucking the low bass string to make a lighter gauge up. Most of the big blues and blues/rock players use(d) very light gauge strings like 8s and 9s -- B.B. King, Clapton, Hendrix, Billy Gibbons etc. The obvious reason is that they liked to bend notes. I find bending on 12-52 flats, within a semi tone, is still pretty easy to do.

Off topic but if you want an old-school Rockabilly tone, get some Rotosound Top Tape Monel flats onto your archtop, pull out an echo or a reverb effect and crank your amp until your tubes cook a bit -- it sounds spot on to my ears.

[pingu]

Yeah it's true -- a lot of string gauges and types we take for granted today weren't around until sometime in the '60s. Before that what we would now call heavy strings, often made with Monel alloys, were the common items and were used by players of all genres. Not sure if they were flats though, or how and when flats became available. We all know the stories about guys like Clapton, Page and Burton adding a banjo string and then chucking the low bass string to make a lighter gauge up. Most of the big blues and blues/rock players use(d) very light gauge strings like 8s and 9s -- B.B. King, Clapton, Hendrix, Billy Gibbons etc. The obvious reason is that they liked to bend notes. I find bending on 12-52 flats, within a semi tone, is still pretty easy to do.

Off topic but if you want an old-school Rockabilly tone, get some Rotosound Top Tape Monel flats onto your archtop, pull out an echo or a reverb effect and crank your amp until your tubes cook a bit -- it sounds spot on to my ears.

not jazz sounds but on a point of order
srv used 13s i believe ...
i think jimi used big strings too

[wildschwein]

not jazz sounds but on a point of order
srv used 13s i believe ...
i think jimi used big strings too

Stevie used a 18-72s at one point; 13s were his standard set though. He shifted to 11s later in his career. Jimi didn't use heavy strings though. He generally used Fender Rock and Roll gauge which in the late '60s early '70s were actually 10-38s. The black strat he favoured just before his death had 9s on it apparently.

http://www.premierguitar.com/article...g_Myths_Part_1

http://www.guitarworld.com/interview...s-guitar-setup

[mr. beaumont]

Mainly the super champ, but I'm big on the Cube 30 too because of its digital effects (fusion)

that's what i was looking for--which one for jazz.

And how are they EQ-D? Which model are you using on the cube?

[mr quick]

Flat EQ on both, use the JC Clean channel on the cube.