Polytone in a Pedal

[mr. beaumont]

Workman-like functionality over form, the heart and soul of a Polytone

[add4]

Also. What would be a demo format that would actually be interesting for you ? Just playing with some sounds and show the possiblities? Or comparison to a real polytone? Or.... I'm open to ideas


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[Frank67]

I think that would be great - your pedal (maybe via a cabsim) into the PA vs a mic'ed up actual Polytone.

Looks great!

[add4]

How about the preamp-out of a polytone in a soundcard, vs the pedal in a sound card

so the test would show how close we are to a real one (should be real close except the one we'll be using is a bass/treble EQ i have no idea of how different it is).
The cab/power amp part is the completely out of the equation then, and really left to the user

[Frank67]

Provided the preamp out of the actual amp does not have a cabsim it would be fair - but it would likely not sound its best. I don't think the poweramp adds too much to the sound here, but the cab will. Can you maybe add the same cabsim (and a touch of reverb) in the software? Or give us that and the dry signal?

[Herbie]

How about the preamp-out of a polytone in a soundcard, vs the pedal in a sound card

so the test would show how close we are to a real one (should be real close except the one we'll be using is a bass/treble EQ i have no idea of how different it is).
The cab/power amp part is the completely out of the equation then, and really left to the user

Looks good!

This would be the most 'objective' way to demo the pedal. No effects, no compression.

Maybe with a looper pedal to avoid the differences in playing touch?

When You are going to sell these commercially, You could make demo with Multitone pedal in front of different general amps: Fender Deluxe Reverb, Roland Cubes, Vox etc compared to a Polytone.

[Nils]

Looks great, Arnaud - really exciting!

When doing a demo, I'd love it if you could take it through its paces, i.e. cover a wide range of dynamics: play hard, soft, play some bass lines, single lines and chords (a couple of complex/close-voiced chords that you let ring as well as chunk-chunk rhythm guitar), etc., etc. It doesn't need to be coherent or anything... To me, that would be more useful than if you a/b it with a Polytone...

But remember to spend some time with your family (and then hurry back...)

[Zedism]

If you'd like any assistance with the front face design of the pedal I'd be more than happy to offer my services free of charge, I have quite a few years of experience in graphic design and typography. It'd be reward enough to see my own work on a pedal I and many others here will no doubt own in future Feel free to Pm me if you'd like to speak further on the matter. Very excited to see this progress as it has, we've needed something like this for too long.

[rio]

This is so cool - I am jealous of the ability to make something like that and then use it. It must be very satisfying. Can't wait to hear it.


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[add4]

This is so cool - I am jealous of the ability to make something like that and then use it. It must be very satisfying. Can't wait to hear it.


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Haha i can tell you that there is absolutely nothing to be jealous of. I learned every skill (there are a lot) needed to get to this the hard way and made every possible mistake... at least three times .

And I'm still a long way from knowing everything about all types of effects, I can't do digital yet, the list of the things I need to start learning is at least equal to the list of the things I can do

It's a huge investment of time and money exactly like playing an Instrument.
But it's really satisfying to see people being interested in the work I put in this and, I hope, being satisfied with it. This is actually what made me want to make this one happen: doing something for people who are interested in the outcome is much more exciting than just adding one more pedal on my pedalboard.

So thanks for being interested guys. Now the new thing I have to learn is how to make a video demo of a pedal that actually reflects fairly what it's doing.



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[thpm]

Arnaud, do you use the second op-amp for the lo-cut? (Sallen-Key Highpass?) I started drawing a perfboard layout from the schematic and I'm not really sure if I should even bother with the "summing amp" stage. Does it do much, given that we ignore the horrible dirt channel? Does your design include it?

[add4]

One opamp, one charge pump to get -9v and 9v.
The low cut here is passive. As I had no place for another opamp and it still works well.

As I removed the reverb, distortion, and effect loop, I also removed the summing stage... there is nothing to sum anyway .

I actually wish I still had one available opamp stage to implement this summing stage and boost the signal by a few dbs because the voice switch dramatically change the volume and in some situations unity is a little above noon. Which I find too high. But well I can't fit that on the pcb without going Smd and it's still working very well.




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[jazzmus]

SMD? Here is a 60x52mm single sided draft for inspiration (9mm alpha right angle, 1/4 resistors, 5mm cap pitch, 24 and 32 mil traces),
if you compromise/re-arrange your pot placement then with a double sided you can easily add the summing stage/output ic,
use ua3b for a active highpass and board mount the switches. With 1/8 resistors it would be doable to further add another ic+pot for a variable active highpass etc. and still keep the small enclosure.
That being said your test build looks great and your sample sounded nice into the fender, fatter and warmer/less sterile than a RC boost.

[thpm]

Let's do this right and add another charge pump to get the correct +/- 15v while we're at it

[jazzmus]

Let's do this right and add another charge pump to get the correct +/- 15v while we're at it

Yes, i just want to try bipolar 9V before adding more caps and diodes etc , i have another draft for a bigger enclosure using dc-dc converter and 78L5 to supply 15V (a supposedly simple and quiet solution) picked up the method from the madbean forum/aion electronics, i just decided to stop drawing until i recieve parts as i really want to try adding a active variable highpass before going further. I build a complete Mini Brute amp clone (poly preamp + mid pot and master volume, 180w class D power and a Beta 8A) a year ago so this pedal thing is just fun.

(ignore the spaghetti wiring, test power up before final assembly).

[RonD]

Sign me up for the first edition!

[Little Jay]

Yes, i just want to try bipolar 9V before adding more caps and diodes etc , i have another draft for a bigger enclosure using dc-dc converter and 78L5 to supply 15V (a supposedly simple and quiet solution) picked up the method from the madbean forum/aion electronics, i just decided to stop drawing until i recieve parts as i really want to try adding a active variable highpass before going further. I build a complete Mini Brute amp clone (poly preamp + mid pot and master volume, 180w class D power and a Beta 8A) a year ago so this pedal thing is just fun.

(ignore the spaghetti wiring, test power up before final assembly).

Wow! A Polyclone! Do you have more documentation about the building process? What schematic did you follow? What parts? (Transformators, ICs, PCB) Where did you source the parts? Really curious! (Would like to do a similar project myself....)

[add4]

The polyclone is a great project. I'd like to do that too. But since I have one... I would put more on another amp to clone

That's why I'm planning to clone a Evans amp next. And the first step is to put the preamp in a pedal... working on this now in case some of you like the idea.

Also. I started working with the fv1 and I'm confident that I could add it as a reverb chip on a bigger version of the polytone preamp. And I'm also looking at the possibility to create a kind of cab sim with it. How cool is that?

Also could someone send me a recording of him playing guitar? I would like to put that on a looper and video the pedal with different settings with that loop as a first demo. If someone can do that can that person link the file here? Or contact me to get my email?


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[add4]

Let's do this right and add another charge pump to get the correct +/- 15v while we're at it

Actually I can assure you that the -9/9v version has more than enough headroom. I don't think you will gain anything useful here.
But of course try it if you want, I'm just convinced that it adds a lot of complexity for potentially zero sound difference


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[add4]

Sure, it would be my pleasure to share, Working a 48hr shift, ill join the thread again later this week.

I'm interested too.

Haha this forum will make the old polytone amps appear again.


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[jorgemg1984]

The polyclone is a great project. I'd like to do that too. But since I have one... I would put more on another amp to clone

That's why I'm planning to clone a Evans amp next. And the first step is to put the preamp in a pedal... working on this now in case some of you like the idea.

Also. I started working with the fv1 and I'm confident that I could add it as a reverb chip on a bigger version of the polytone preamp. And I'm also looking at the possibility to create a kind of cab sim with it. How cool is that?

Also could someone send me a recording of him playing guitar? I would like to put that on a looper and video the pedal with different settings with that loop as a first demo. If someone can do that can that person link the file here? Or contact me to get my email?


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Arnau, I like this chip more than the fv-1, although the fv-1 is a nce too!

BTDR-3 Accutronics / Belton Digi-Log Reverb, horizontal NEW -

[jazzmus]

Sure, it would be my pleasure to share, Working a 48hr shift, ill join the thread again later this week.

Im not sure what to say really - with the sole purpose of the cloning a polytone -
i learned to read schematics, how to navigate a very basic pcb design, how to fabricate a pcb at home from copperclad, study components - caps, resistors which and why. The chassis and cab was the easy part, ive build stuff when needed since i was kid.
The power amp, Chris (Franz 1997), recommended to me and he guided me thru the wiring, this one is a intergrated unit so i didnt have to worry about a transformer, suited me fine as this stuff was total voodoo to me at the time as i had zero prior with electronics, i know my way around household AC and how to use a mulitmeter, but everything else new to me. Oh, the schematic i used has been posted in this thread or atleast many times in this forum.
I dont any sort of project file that would be usefull to anyone as such, im considering doing one, with a PCB for diy etch, bom and a pre amp chassis drawing/material list. If anyone has specific questions ask away but i will stress the fact that i just decided to do it and made it up as i went along. Hurray for hands on but i wouldnt mind saving others from doing this -

[add4]

Im not sure what to say really - with the sole purpose of the cloning a polytone -
i learned to read schematics, how to navigate a very basic pcb design, how to fabricate a pcb at home from copperclad, study components - caps, resistors which and why. The chassis and cab was the easy part, ive build stuff when needed since i was kid.
The power amp, Chris (Franz 1997), recommended to me and he guided me thru the wiring, this one is a intergrated unit so i didnt have to worry about a transformer, suited me fine as this stuff was total voodoo to me at the time as i had zero prior with electronics, i know my way around household AC and how to use a mulitmeter, but everything else new to me. Oh, the schematic i used has been posted in this thread or atleast many times in this forum.
I dont any sort of project file that would be usefull to anyone as such, im considering doing one, with a PCB for diy etch, bom and a pre amp chassis drawing/material list. If anyone has specific questions ask away but i will stress the fact that i just decided to do it and made it up as i went along. Hurray for hands on but i wouldnt mind saving others from doing this -

so the power isn't the polytone power amp (which is well known for being unstable and hard to bias) but a different unit bought somewhere? i've read that great results can be had with that kind of solutions..

[add4]

Hello everyone..

Here are my ideas about pricing for the pedal. i've pushed this away for too long

So the situation now is that i've talked of the pedal to my fellow DIYers and some of them are interested in getting the PCB and building one for themselves. It's something that is quite common and i'm honored by their interest and it's for me a way of 'giving back' to the community i learned so much from. I'm working on preparing a good build doc for this. So if i'm offering that to other people, i might as well offer it for those of you who like to solder things up..

This means that I plan to offer 2 different possibilities for the pedal

- You buy the PCB and the build doc. The rest is up to you: i won't provide a box ( edit: actually I don't see why I couldn't provide the box, correctly drilled, with the labels), the components, etc .. you solder the board, test and debug and box it yourself.. it's not hard, but it takes time and errors can be made. The price for this is usually really low: something between 5 to 10 euros plus shipping .. i still have to fix a price. you should be aware that the cost of the components, box, ... brings it around 60-70 euros in the end if you choose quality materials. and i'll not offer support for this build: if something is messed up, you'll have to figure that out by yourself (i can give pointers maybe, but i won't spend hours hunting problems on something i don't have my hands on )

- You buy a finished pedal from me. You get something that works, is tested, that i can support for 2 years (that's legal warranty) if there is a problem, like a pedal in fact
The results of the survey for the price are a bit all over the place, but the average is 155 euros. Which is a bit less than I imagined for the work i have to put in... but here is my proposition: 175 euros for the people from this forum, i'll keep that price for let's say the 'first wave' of pedals i'll make for the people from this forum who supported the development with their interest and positive comments. And i will probably ask for 200 or a bit more (which is the usual price for handmade pedals) after that first wave. Custom artwork is possible but it's an extra 25-50 euros (depending of the work to be done) as it means a special order, some additional costs for producing the box and time spent on it.

how does that sound? As you can see i'm trying to be as open and honest as possible, but still get a little something for my work (which is also normal I beleive). I think that transparency and trust is the best way to make great things happen.

I'll come up with some demos as soon as i fix my guitar and get an evening where i'm not too tired to do this..
My first demo scenario would be to take a basic loop through my fender and add the pedal in front of it, and let you hear the sound differences as i use the pedal.


And finally, here are some pics With the right knobs




And the guts:




P.s. I'll create a kind of form later today which could be used by those who want one of those and serve as a preorder form and waiting list too ( first in, first out)

[Little Jay]

Send it to me and I'll send you the money! :-D