Swart amps for early jazz?

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-10-2015, 03:36 PM

Im sure they were discussed before here, but Im really considering getting their little 5w amp, Atomic jr. My main gigging amp right now is ZT Lunchbox. I love it, but sometimes for small gigs where we dont have a drummer I cant get that slightly dirty sound by tweaking volume and gain. And apparently Im not a fan of sterile clean jazz tone. I want to get the tone Im hearing on the old recordings from 1930- 40s. I have a p90 holllowbody Guild as a main guitar. So do you think a 5 w tube amp like Swart would be a good idea to get that slightly overdriven tone?

**spiral** · 05-10-2015, 05:01 PM

At gigging levels, most likely. I think probably any low wattage amp will get you in the ballpark (I love that early breakup tone too. Big George Barnes fan.). I know people love the Swart but I had an AST and found it really boxing sounding, not in a good way. Aren't there some recent builders make copies of the early Gibson amps? Something like the Vintage King Falcon might be worth checking out (Supro/Valco clone). Those get crunchy at lower volumes. Dirty Girl also makes Valco clones.

[edit]
The Vox Night Train 15 (head or combo) does 15w and has a gain knob so you could dial in grit to taste.

**jasonc** · 05-10-2015, 05:23 PM

You might take a peek at the Vintage 47 amps.

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-10-2015, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by jasonc

You might take a peek at the Vintage 47 amps.

Thanks I did! That looks great, and the price is fantastic, only they don't accept any payments now, I guess they got too many pre orders, and nothing is available. I would sure get one if it was!

**campusfive** · 05-11-2015, 02:38 AM

I borrow one when I play in Boston, but I have the luxury of having monitors and a sound guy, so I can get away with a 5w amp in those settings.

Still, it sounded good, and definitely wasn't squeaky clean.

**vintagelove** · 05-11-2015, 03:00 AM

I would advise saving yourself a whole bunch of cash and buy a prebuilt Champ kit with a 12. I listened to a few clips and wasn't hearing anything "unique". My 2 cents....

**ruger9** · 05-11-2015, 08:15 AM

I don't know about the Atomic specifically, but yes- Swart amps, at least the AST/AST Master/AST MkII, have an EQ profile that will do early jazz nicely... but depending on EXACTLY what you're after, Vintage 47 or Nocturne Moonshine '39 might be better suited.

The V47s are valco designs, the Moonshine is a modern take on a Gibson EH-185...THE ULTIMATE early jazz amp.

If I had the cash, I'd be buying a Moonshine, myself.

**Klatu** · 05-11-2015, 08:33 AM

Agreed. The Nocturne Moonshine sounds wonderful in the clips. I just have to keep in mind that the player in the video is a master of the style and gets the most out of such a fine amp.

A few months ago, I remember reading a thread about a Gibson EH185 prototype made my Vintage 47 Amps that looked promising.

**Archtop addict** · 05-11-2015, 09:47 AM

I'd also recommend Vintage 47. I've got a Thundervolt supreme - 6-10 watts, 2x12, reverb. Really cool looking amp finished in black and white tolex.

Coupled to my '53 Guild x-350 loaded with Franz pickups (Franz pickups are the 'Guild version of the P90, and probably what you have if your guitar is stock) or my P90 equipped Gibsons, the resulting tone is fat, warm, and gorgeous. The amp breaks up really easily - definitely not sterile sounding.

These amps are a great buy. You can often find used ones on Reverb or Ebay.

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-11-2015, 11:36 AM

Thanks guys. Moonshine sounds great, but it might be too big for me. I'm a city boy, I can't lug those big amps around NYC on a subway or bus. Thats why I use ZT Lunchbox in a first place. Swart Atomic is light at only 14lbs, and would suit me perfectly.

But now... Vintage47 looks like what I've been looking for! THIS tone:

That's it, amazing! Still, they got nothing to sell on their website! What gives??

**Jazzpunk** · 05-11-2015, 12:10 PM

You need to try the Swart for yourself. They sound great but break up very early. May or may not work for you depending on the sound you want and the volume you gig at.

**ruger9** · 05-11-2015, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Thanks guys. Moonshine sounds great, but it might be too big for me. I'm a city boy, I can't lug those big amps around NYC on a subway or bus. Thats why I use ZT Lunchbox in a first place. Swart Atomic is light at only 14lbs, and would suit me perfectly.

But now... Vintage47 looks like what I've been looking for! THIS tone:

?

The Moonshine '39 Shinebox is a HEAD.... with a 6x9 oval speaker in it..... you can use the internal speaker OR hook it up to a cabinet.... the perfect grab-and-go...

I love that Oahu Suitcase tone too.... I actually got it by modding a Champion 600... but for $600, you can't beat the price- IF you can find one. IDK what's up with the V47 guy, I received his recent newsletter, and he said he was going to start offering "batches" again soon, but no real details..... I emailed him about his EH-185 type amp and he never replied.

**barrymclark** · 05-11-2015, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Thanks guys. Moonshine sounds great, but it might be too big for me. I'm a city boy, I can't lug those big amps around NYC on a subway or bus. Thats why I use ZT Lunchbox in a first place. Swart Atomic is light at only 14lbs, and would suit me perfectly.

But now... Vintage47 looks like what I've been looking for! THIS tone:

That's it, amazing! Still, they got nothing to sell on their website! What gives??

Oh yeah. I dig that sound.

...except at the very end. Not my thing. ...but everything up to that... "Oh yeah. I dig that sound.

"

**campusfive** · 05-11-2015, 03:33 PM

I talked to David from Vintage 47 a couple of days ago. They're just really back ordered and they had the good sense to stop taking deposits when they couldn't keep up with the demand. They're a really small operation, but they're working on the backlog.

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-11-2015, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by campusfive

I talked to David from Vintage 47 a couple of days ago. They're just really back ordered and they had the good sense to stop taking deposits when they couldn't keep up with the demand. They're a really small operation, but they're working on the backlog.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna shoot him an email!

After this thread, and the info I found through research, I'm not that interested in Swart anymore, it looks like the tone I'm chasing is in pre-Fender type amps. I'll take my time.

**ruger9** · 05-12-2015, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna shoot him an email!

After this thread, and the info I found through research, I'm not that interested in Swart anymore, it looks like the tone I'm chasing is in pre-Fender type amps. I'll take my time.

Wise choice. The Swart amps are awesome, and it's one of my very very favorite amp tones, but it's more like a brownface era Fender... and you're right: you're chasing pre-Fender tones.... not that much to choose from out there.

The only people in the US I know making octal preamps of any kind is Nocturne and V47. Nocturne is expensive and V47 is backed up/who knows how long until you can get what you want. I usually prefer to buy modern repros of vintage stuff, but maybe actually getting a vintage EH-185 is what you're after?

**campusfive** · 05-12-2015, 10:30 AM

You think the Nocturne is expensive, try finding an EH-185 right now....

**campusfive** · 05-12-2015, 10:48 AM

Seriously though, if you can't wait:

Vintage Supro National Tweed Model 1220 Amp Serviced 2X 6V6 No Reserve | eBay

Vintage 1952 Bronson Singing Electric Tube Guitar Amplifier National Valco 50'S | eBay

Or hell, even this:
Epiphone Century Limited Edition Electar Guitar Amplifier 18W Tube Amp | eBay

**Hep To The Jive** · 05-12-2015, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Wise choice. The Swart amps are awesome, and it's one of my very very favorite amp tones, but it's more like a brownface era Fender... and you're right: you're chasing pre-Fender tones.... not that much to choose from out there.

The only people in the US I know making octal preamps of any kind is Nocturne and V47. Nocturne is expensive and V47 is backed up/who knows how long until you can get what you want. I usually prefer to buy modern repros of vintage stuff, but maybe actually getting a vintage EH-185 is what you're after?

If I found EH 185, it wouldn't be ready to gig with right out of the box, right? LOL. Here's the problem- I know nothing about electronics, or how those things work, etc... I have a guitar tech who does work sometimes, but he doesn't serve amps. Where would I go for this kind of setup, with a pre-war amp? If only few making clones, how many would be able to do maintenance on it? Would it be a major hassle to keep it in a reliable gigging shape anyway? I'm not very romantic about gear, I just wanna get to a gig, setup and play, and the vintage electronics make me nervous to be honest... Maybe I'm wrong?

**ruger9** · 05-12-2015, 12:50 PM

Jonathan would be the one to answer those questions, as he does gig with his EH's.

**D.G.** · 05-12-2015, 04:14 PM

When I was chasing the Oscar Moore tone, I found the Fender Excelsior! got me where I wanted to go, i.e. not a clone of the tone, but the quality I was looking for. Something to consider.

**campusfive** · 05-12-2015, 05:44 PM

If and when you find a clean EH-185, you pay extra for having it be in ready-to-play condition.
They do need some TLC, but I've only had mine go down on me once, and it was my own fault for not having it properly serviced prior.

**Petimar** · 05-14-2015, 03:27 AM

If you are not in a big hurry, wait for the Vintage 47 eh185 copy. I've got the prototype and it is wonderful for old Jazz sounds!

**IbanezAS100** · 05-14-2015, 06:45 AM

I know nothing about these amps, but I remembered looking at Mike Sankey's guitars and he makes some tube amps too. This could be of interest :

Sankey Guitars - Ghost of Charlie Christian

This is tasty too:

Sankey Guitars - ol' brown shoe