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I was just wondering if anyone has compared these to other guitars with the same body size, depth, nut width, scale length and single humbucking pickup.
I have an AR503CE myself, and I keep thinking that it looks very much like a Benedetto Bravo or 16B. Anyone ever have a chance to compare?
I would like to keep this thread discussion focused on guitars with same parameters as referenced in the subject line. 16" 2 1/2 deep at the rim, 1 3/4 nut, 25" scale, and single humbucking pickup.
Danielle
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04-30-2015 10:50 AM
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I am a happy owner of an AR503CE, although I'll probably be happier with a different pickup.
I've never played a Sadowsky, and I expect they must be in a different league in terms of quality, but I'd say that the Jim Hall model has similar measurements to the 503.
Sadowsky Guitars | Jim Hall Model
Archtops AR503CE ? Eastman Guitars
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Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Not the same, The Jim Hall has a 24 3/4 scale. I have seen one and they really do feel like they have a deeper body.
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The Collings Eastside LC comes close dimension-wise. Its scale length is 24.875", rim depth is 2.5", lower bout is 16" and it has a single neck humbucker. It is laminated maple all over. Nut width is a standard 1 and 11/16".
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Right! I had noticed the scale length, but I misread the body depth of the Sadowsky (I thought it was 2-1/2"). Oops! Originally Posted by DanielleOM
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I was hoping to see a little more dialogue on this thread.
Anyone have a chance to compare an Eastman AR403CE / AR503CE with a Benedetto Bravo? (They really do look similar to me.)
Using some silly logic here I think. I have guitars here I have not used in twenty years. So I better find something I like before sell those off?
Danielle
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The 16B is more comparable to the Eastman Pisano 880 construction. 403 is laminated back and top, and 503 solid top, lam back and sides if I recall correctly.
With that said, I have played several Bravos, and a 403. While the 403 is an excellent value, if you are looking to sell some gear off and buy a nice archtop, go for the Bravo. I admit a bias to the Benedetto since I play/gig with a Cremona, however I also have a 880. One thing with Eastman is consistency-unless you can hand pick from several, you may end up with a dud. The Bravos I've played have all been consistently good, and seem to be stable in resale at around the 3K range.
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It just occurred to me that I have never owned a guitar with a Benedetto style tailpiece. Maybe that alone gives some justification for trying a Bravo.
Danielle
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PSA 2005 Benedetto Bravo . Asking $3495; you know the drill.
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Well, you get the hint from the biker, Danielle. Originally Posted by SierraTango
Edit: Much respect for bikers. Much respect. I'd have been a biker too except that I'm cock-eyed and have a tendency to tramline right into a ditch.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 07-03-2015 at 12:28 PM.
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I haven't kept up with changes made on the Bravo line, however if memory serves the early ones had a metal tailpiece, then they switched over to a metal tailpiece with a ebony fascia. Much like the Eastman. Not sure if they ever had the Cello style, maybe some Bravo owners can correct this information. Originally Posted by DanielleOM
Even though you are looking at similar specs, the Bravo is/was produced in far fewer numbers and "perhaps" with tighter quality control. It's doubtful you would ever lose a significant amount on resale, whereas the Eastmans take a nose dive on resale. Also, and this is a personal thing, owning a Benedetto 'may" give you a little pride of ownership thing unique to that guitar.
I took a bit of heat on another thread about D'A reps from P2, however yes I am a avid Ducati rider and love Harleys-I pass them all the time.
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
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I would also be taking a serious look at this if I was in the Bravo market.
Benedetto Bambino Deluxe Honey Blonde Archtop Guitar Price Lowered | eBay
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
I do find that instrument to be attractive from an appearance point of view. I find I struggle to find a way to comfortably play smaller guitars when sitting down.
Do you know why the coil tap is no longer available? Is there a negative to having the coil tap?
I see what you mean regarding the tailpiece on the Bravo. I looked at a number of photos and could not see the loop you would expect to see for a cello style tailpiece.
Danielle
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I'm not expert enough to offer an opinion on the coil tap issue. It would seem to be an advantage, I've of course played guitars equipped with that feature. A simple way to get another voice out of the instrument, but I don't see it as an advantage or disadvantage either way.
The Cello tailpiece is/was an attempt to save some weight and there are those of the opinion that it produces better tone. Some complained about tuning stability, however when the system is installed correctly and settles in it is just as solid as a metal tailpiece. Obviously installing a metal tailpiece is easier and then covering it with a fascia or wood is now very popular and looks great.
If a 16" instrument fits you, go for that. I was very impressed with the Bambino Deluxe models I had a chance to play-really comfortable sitting down for me with a strap, however that is a personal thing. I like that model a lot.
Jab linked you to the Bravo at archtop.com, don't know your location however here's one that must be in SoCal by the 818 area code. I admit I'm partial to blondes though.
2008 Benedetto Bravo Natural > Guitars : Archtop Electric & Acoustic - imperial vintage guitars
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From the photos I see, it looks like the strings make contact with the ebony where they leave the tailpiece. I am thinking that alone might make some difference compared to a tailpiece where the strings never make contact with the ebony.
I have never come across a Bambino and it's been many years since I have seen a Bravo. I wish more sites would give the dimension across the waist of the guitar.
Danielle
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It's been sold. Originally Posted by SierraTango
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It was interesting to see how that blonde showed up in photographs. In some of the photos the right side of the top looked darker. In others the left side looked darker. In some of the photos there was light area near the bottom. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Danielle
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That's saying something right there. It looked to be an excellent buy. You can order up an Eastman all day long, however if your target is a Benedetto, even the "entry" model, you will have to be patient. I waited a long time for my Cremona. Of course they will be happy to build a new one for you. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
The photos of the sold Bravo have some shadows, I seriously doubt it would have left the shop with less than a excellent finish. Happy hunting!
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The most obvious difference between the two is that the Eastman has a laminated maple top and the Benedetto has a laminated spruce top. I have not made the comparison, but I can certainly add to the chorus of praise for the Bravo.
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If you look below the pickguard, you will see this one has picked a nasty scratch. Off hand, I think this deters me. Really do not know how much it affects the value of the instrument. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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If you are really considering this Bravo, and since it is a substantial investment, call Joe or email him. I've found him helpful and willing to answer questions. He notes "finish checking" in the description, perhaps what you are seeing is that. Originally Posted by DanielleOM
If it's any comfort, my BC has some flaws, a small ding here, some minor checking there. I find it adds to the charm of the instrument and gives it some soul. Also, it makes me a little less nervous playing out-if it suffers a little scratch from a music stand or similar I don't have to beat myself up for it.
Also, there is a return policy...
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Even though I now own both a Bravo and an Eastman AR503CE, I don't have both guitars here to do a direct comparison. I must admit I had no difficulty adjusting to the physical characteristics of the Bravo.
Unplugged I think the Eastman may sound better. However plugged in I think the Bravo is my favorite. Without having both here at the same time, and set up similarly with the same string set, I feel that I am guessing here. Not sure if the Eastman will be my back up to the Bravo or vice versa.
I am thinking I might want to change the pickup in the Eastman to a Bravo A6. I am thinking that would make it a lot easier to live with the Eastman in the event the Bravo was spending time away with a luthier. Not sure if I would get a black or gold pickup. It seems it's always a challenge keeping the gold ones clean. Once you go into an archtop and starting changing a pickup, I am thinking it might make sense to change the whole harness and all devices connected to it. Not sure on that myself. Anyone know what pots, caps, are used in a Bravo? The one I have has the push pull switch but suspect I only will use the one position. I am still wondering why Benedetto no longer offers the push pull switch as an option.
Danielle
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I thought I should report back on the guitars now that I own both.
One thing I found interesting was that the cases are not interchangeable. If you try to put the Eastman in the Bravo TKL case the guitar is a little too deep for the cover to close properly. I think the Eastman back and top carve is makes the difference as the two guitars are almost the same depth when measured at the rim. Eastman headstock is angled a little more and the headstock will hit the bottom of the Benedetto TKL case.
If you try and put the Bravo in the Eastman molded case there the headstock almost hits the end of the case. The Benedetto headstock seems to be a little longer.
The Bravo neck is feels thinner than the Eastman and seems to taper down more from a thickness point of view as you approach the nut.
Right now I would say unplugged I like the (carved top) Eastman more. Plugged in I like the (laminated top) Bravo more. (Really have to wonder what I would like better plugged in, if they both had the same pickups.)
Danielle
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I have a new Blonde Eastman 503ce and it may not be at the level of a Bennedetto but it's pretty darn nice ! Heck even the finish under the fretboard cantilevered over the body is done well on mine, yes maybe a different pickup might be on the horizon but for a $1000 it's a really nice guitar especially if you plan to keep it. I also agree the unplugged sound of the Eastman is very balanced and pleasing when practicing.
Last edited by superdave; 11-22-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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