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Lol Thanks ;-)
Originally Posted by jzucker
wait a minute archtop heaven, I just realized the joe pass is the JP-120. If you think that sounds better than a 175, along with the questionable judgement that Joy Spring sounds horrible, this completely disqualifies you from making tonal judgements in the future!
Actually I really like the Jp-120. I obviously had one and it sounded excellent, not thin like people say. Although everyone is open to their own opinion. I know me and Dic don't agree and of course I respect his opinion too.
However I will stand by my guns. I might be getting another one soon, I'll be more than happy to prove you wrong :-)
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04-01-2015 05:28 PM
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The "Black Guitar" had nothing to do with an ES-175 whatsoever. Google "Howard Roberts Black Guitar" and you can find the completish, somewhat muddled history of that very unique instrument- now owned by Wolf Marshall. It's possibly the most recorded guitar in history. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
Prior to that Howard had a 1954 ES-175 with a P-90. It's on at least one of Howard's albums as a leader (in the cover photo the negative is reversed and the guitar looks like a leftie). He subsequently sold or traded that guitar to Jim Hall and the rest, as they say, is history. Jim played it 20+ years before getting his D'Aquisto.
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well thats what struck me, he clearly had an Es-175 on that album, I forget the name. Your right it was reversed in print. Originally Posted by Cunamara
My fav tone of his is from the Dirty old Bossa era.
Oh well turns out I only like one players Es-175 tone now
Tell you what thought really liked the tone of the new Epiphone Es-175 but its much lighter and the woods are lighter so it has a more interesting sound (imo)
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
There is a good video on this guitar and the changes HR made over the years on The HR Project webpage you just have to get on their mailing list to get the password. I just watch the video gain and for the neck was completely changed to a 25" scale neck. I don't think there is anything on that old ES-150 that wasn't changed in some way.
http://www.howardrobertsproject.com
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a buddy of mine owns one. It's very bright and brash sounding. That's why you don't like a 175. You obviously have limited high frequency content in your hearing. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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It's a II Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by Eric Rowland
It's a II
Aria Pro II is the brand name .... not the model of the guitar ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aria_(guitar_company)
I worked in a store in the early 80s that carried Aria Pro II guitars ..
Good guitars .. especially the Herb Ellis model
Herb actually did a clinic there demonstrating his Aria Pro II signature guitar while I worked there
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IMO, the mysteries of guitar making are gone, everything that needs to be known has been discovered so it's a matter of manufacturing cost that makes a decent guitar. I have inexpensive guitars that sound great and have had expensive guitars that I couldn't "bond" with, but somewhere down the line someone probably owns one of these "discards" and loved it :-) I've also played some identical model guitars side by side and one played and sounded great while the other was a dud.
That said, I own a PE-175, an H-575, and ES-175 and are all equal in many ways, and some better in other ways. The HE is a very good guitar that stands shoulder to shoulder to many great guitars and has been in my experience one of the most consistent I've played with nearly zero variability on sound and playability. Not many guitars can I make that claim about. It's too bad there are not more around.
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Again I dont agree with that. Actually my hearing is the other way round, highly sensitive to trebles. In fact I can hear sonic or sonar frequencies that you wont be able to detect. Like Rat sonars etc.. Originally Posted by jzucker
Thats why most tube amps are out and the Es-175 is disappointing to me because the trebles are generally too harsh. One of the things I love about Japanese guitars and I'll say again, is because they have tighter bass and rounder trebles in the higher register.
I could use the same argument against you. Its come to my understanding that a lot of people here cant hear to the extremities and thats why I'm one of the few people banging on about bass and treble response. Im the one talking about higher registers and how they fall apart, or become brittle and harsh more than most. So I doubt my hearing is the issue,
could be yours though!
;-)
Anyway I will leave it at that, let me put my money where my mouth is, instead of us getting into an intrenched back and forth.
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I'll chime in here. Originally Posted by jzucker
on 90% of gigs I use a 60s L-5CES, but like A.H., I have an Aria PE-180, two in fact.
I use them when playing gigs where people are dancing and tend to bump into me from time to time.
really great playing and sounding, and I didn't even touch the pickups.
the necks are really well shaped too, like a lot of 70s Japanese guitars.
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Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
Point of information/confirmation (?!)
I have an Aria Pro II EA650SB model. The "sound post" or the "anti-feedback block" thingie is the hourglass-shaped wedge of wood (probably 3/16" thick) under the bridge, connecting the soundboard and the back of the guitar, correct?! Just checking.
PS: I really like this guitar. Very even but focused sound with a Vintage Vibe P90 humbucker-sized PU in the neck. Not as rich as the L4-CES, but neither is a 175. Plays really easily. Mahog neck but is a maple laminate back, and of course, the top. Body binding is peeled off in spots, but it is 35 yrs. old or so, I believe. (Have a really good guitar tech/luthier in NJ, Alan Watsky, who I trust, and have worked with before. I'll have to ask him about this.)
I've always assumed these were slavish imitations of a 175, but the 175 has no soundpost, correct?!
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Hey Jz to be honest we are probably splitting hairs. You've got great tone and you now what great tone is. Getting to the finer points or pitfalls of 'some' Es-175's' or why I think the design is inherently 'not as good as it could be, doesn't matter if you find a good one.
In regards to the Efa?-650 Aria Pro II if you can get one, grab one. I've never played such a woody sounding 16 that was a laminate and they are cheap. Plays like butter too.
In regards to the Greco its just very focused in the extreme tonal ranges and thus for someone like me, is more pleasing.
I think even you would admit that some Es-175's from the 70's onwards are heavy, dull and just not very nice sounding. Yet every smaller Es-175 i've played from japan was what I wanted the Es-175 to do. Tight bass, round trebles and a more balanced tone across the strings. They also seem to have a have a higher tension, even though they have the same scale. This is great because you get the snap back of 13's with 12's. Now your using 12's the bass string is suddenly so much more accessible.
I dont know how they do it but it works for me. I sincerely believe that the depth of the body and shoulders play a big part and the bracing. I thin the japanese do better bracing. I get such balanced tone and string response from Japanese 175's that i wish the Gibson had, on many of the models i tried.
In the end you may find the Greco a little dull but I would sacrifice that nice mid range punch the Gibson has (obviously the greco has punch) for a more usable guitar live. Because after all I want to play the whole freeboard. Tone is great but language is also massively important. The greco hit it right in the middle.
You may argue that a 175 is perfectly usable live but as I said use 13's on 24'3/4's because i like a more L5 tension and you just cant go near the bass string unless you take all the bass out through tone shaping, again I believe what joe did 'because' of his guitar and his tone was thin and nazaly because of it.
I dont think its suprsing that he tried to get away from the 175 and I think for tonal reasons. I'm talking about body depth and look what they did for joe, take out some of the body depth. I think the tone was better too.
but anyway, thats all my opinion and I wouldn't disagree if you or anyone else thought otherwise. Its all subjective. What I do know and always have, is that I have excellent above average hearing (which is a bit of a curse). Whether you think I have a good idea of what good tone is, is another story.
If you cant hear what i'm hearing it gets like this. If a tree falls in the woods type thing. I say the Es175 is brittle in the trebles you say no. Well you're right, for those without the same hearing its not. So fair enough to them. Lucky them in fact.Last edited by Archie; 04-02-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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what's the diff between the greco and aria 175 copies?
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what's the diff between the greco and aria 175 copies?
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I don't think there is a difference other than cosmetic.
Aria was the parent company and guitars were sold under various brand names, like Memphis, Greco, Bradley, etc...
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do the greco 175s have the bridge block like the herb ellis
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Sorry for the late reply.
No the greco is a very different guitar, although it might have that funny patch under the brige I cant remember. Mostly all Japanese Es-175's I have played have it. Could be part of the sound.
The early greco's (pre 80's) are very much the same as the early Ibanez 2355, so an exact copy of the Gibson. The post 80's models are different and share more in common with the Ibanez FG-100 but i think the Greco has a bit more tone.
The body is only 3 inches deep or slightly less, maybe 2'3/4"s and the shoulders are narrower but not alarmingly so. The top is thiner than Gibson 70's and I would assume the back too.
Its light and remarkably feedback resistant.
The tone is very GB10 but with more depth. If I had to chose over a GB-10 and Greco FA, I would take the Greco every time. Not saying the GB is a bad guitar but she you consider the tone of the FA and the feedback resistance, there is no need to go to a smaller body and sacrifice any more.
In the end though its all personal taste. I did end up selling it because I probably wanted something with a bit more woody spruce tone. I think I sold it for my Guild X-700
Last edited by Archie; 04-02-2015 at 05:42 PM.
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i had one of the ibanez 175 copies and it had a spliced neck heel and maple neck so they are not exact copies...
also, it's quality was a huge step down from my gibson 175
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Yeh sorry I meant in terms of dimensions. The 2355 also had a laminate spruce top and Birch back and sides. Unless you had the blonde maple version. Originally Posted by jzucker
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what's a fair price for the aria? I see a number of them going for $1300+$130 shipping from japanese dealers. Seem a tad high?
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i had the blonde maple version. I didn't think it was of the same quality as the gibsons or their signature models. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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I aced the test much to my surprise, hearing all freqs very easily except the 22 kHz. I'm 44. Is this thing serious? If it is Archtopheaven's remarks about tube amps would explain why a number of demos of some highly regarded boutique amps have sounded just glassy and piercing to me and left me wondering what the fuss was all about.
Last edited by m_d; 04-02-2015 at 06:04 PM.
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probably $700-900 US Originally Posted by jzucker
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ouch, then the japanese ones on ebay are truly overpriced. Do you know of any forsale at the normalized price? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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there was one here on Craigslist for $350 a few months ago, but I was a hair too late even though I wouldn't have kept it--obviously way underpriced. don't know of another, but check eBay's completed list and try contacting a seller of one that didn't sell for their asking price. Originally Posted by jzucker
that and keep your eye on the usual places, Reverb, Gbase and check Craigslist on Google for ones in other states.
I'd pay up to 1K for a really nice one [not for me though as I'm a 25.5 scale guy]
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