Anyone going DI to a powered speaker for gigs?

[kamlapati]

Just to add my two cents here, even if little late.

I too like the sound of carved top / floaters into full range amplification. I also use my Baggs PADI as the front end into my mini-PA sometimes, a Yamaha Stagepas 500 for me.

But here's another approach that I like. I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist. It's smaller than your average powered speaker, plus it has tow channels, phantom power, an effective EQ section and reverb built-in. If more power is needed it has good direct outs to drive a powered speaker. I've been thinking of picking up one of the new Yamaha DBR range. This setup would give you the equivalent of the PADI, the reverb, a monitor and a FOH amp in just two boxes.

[Longways to Go]

Just to add my two cents here, even if little late.

I too like the sound of carved top / floaters into full range amplification. I also use my Baggs PADI as the front end into my mini-PA sometimes, a Yamaha Stagepas 500 for me.

But here's another approach that I like. I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist. It's smaller than your average powered speaker, plus it has tow channels, phantom power, an effective EQ section and reverb built-in. If more power is needed it has good direct outs to drive a powered speaker. I've been thinking of picking up one of the new Yamaha DBR range. This setup would give you the equivalent of the PADI, the reverb, a monitor and a FOH amp in just two boxes.

Kamlapati,
I'm so glad you brought this approach up-- looks very flexible and easy to me. I am learning a lot from this thread!

3 of my amps (Loudbox Mini, DV Mark Little Jazz & Quilter Aviator) can run direct out to a powered speaker.
Seems to make more sense than running an extension cab, especially if the sound is good.

So how loud is one of these Alto powered speakers anyway? 600 watts through 1x10 . . . is it louder than a good SS 1x10 guitar amp?

Any downside here? Small good amp driving an (optional) powered speaker seems like a pretty cool set up to me. . ..



This discussion is making me rethink my whole thinking on

[kamlapati]

3 of my amps (Loudbox Mini, DV Mark Little Jazz & Quilter Aviator) can run direct out to a powered speaker.
Seems to make more sense than running an extension cab, especially if the sound is good.

Careful though, IME direct outs on regular guitar amps can sound different than what you hear, because the speaker is a big part of the sound. Fully agree on the LB Mini though.

[Greentone]

Late in their careers both Joe Pass and Herb Ellis traveled with small preamp/DI circuits to put into the house PA. Worked fine. I checked Ellis' out,,,custom made. Looked like a Baxandall tone unit with impedance matching.

[kamlapati]

Late in their careers both Joe Pass and Herb Ellis traveled with small preamp/DI circuits to put into the house PA. Worked fine. I checked Ellis' out,,,custom made. Looked like a Baxandall tone unit with impedance matching.

Cool, never knew that. I bet nowadays they'd get by with a Baggs PADI. I think they're as close to an essential piece of kit as anything I own.

[Chazmo]

I recall reading that Martin Taylor plugs into the house PA. I believe he uses a custom-made tube preamp to warm up the tone. This setup with his signature Peerless produces a very nice acoustic tone. It's not the fat 50s Jim Hall/Kenny Burrell/etc. jazz sound a lot of people die for, but very nice in a modern way.

[jorgemg1984]

Even just a graphic eq can make a pa cab sound acceptable.

[Cunamara]

Late in their careers both Joe Pass and Herb Ellis traveled with small preamp/DI circuits to put into the house PA. Worked fine. I checked Ellis' out,,,custom made. Looked like a Baxandall tone unit with impedance matching.

I did not know that Herb Ellis did this; I knew about Joe Pass only because he has discussed it in an interview on video. I have never heard what kind of DI he had used. In Joe's case, at least, "worked fine" means "guitar got amplified" not that it actually sounded good... in the interview he pointed out that this approach puts the guitarist even more at the mercy of the sound person and the quality of the PA.

OTOH I heard Gene Bertoncini go direct through the PA in a church in St. Paul MN and it sounded magnificent. It was interesting to hear Gene's sound coming from all over the building whereas the bassist and drummer both were point sources- no mics on the drums and an amp for the bass.

[boatheelmusic]

Even just a graphic eq can make a pa cab sound acceptable.

Jorgemg, I think differences in EQ schemes primarily lie at the differences among amps.

Speakers are easily changed, but tone controls not so much.

But pedals or modelling can change that.

[jorgemg1984]

Jorgemg, I think differences in EQ schemes primarily lie at the differences among amps.

Speakers are easily changed, but tone controls not so much.

But pedals or modelling can change that.

I think it's 50 / 50. Both impact tone heavily... but yeah much easier to swap speakers

[jzucker]

Jorgemg, I think differences in EQ schemes primarily lie at the differences among amps.

Speakers are easily changed, but tone controls not so much.

But pedals or modelling can change that.

Tone controls can be radically different in preamps. For example, many of the jazz amps have their treble mid freq at 10k which is well beyond the range of the guitar. A good guitar preamp has a functioning tone control in every range and the addition of a high freq tone control for harmonics (that's where the 10k comes in handy)

[boatheelmusic]

I think that was my point, LOL!

[GuyBoden]

I think that was my point, LOL!

Yes I agree, that's why I use the EQ in a preamp/pedal to control the sound going through the Amp's EQ setting, especially when I'm playing through my T.C Electronic Bass amp.

[jzucker]

I think that was my point, LOL!

oh, i thought you were saying it was the amp that made the difference, sorry

[boatheelmusic]

No, my bad.

I was really going for the tonestack/EQ characteristics.

Agree that centering frequencies and Q , as well as speakers are so key.

[nosoyninja]

Here's what I'm using at the moment:



Dual system. A stereo plug separates into the sansamp for the regular mag pickup, the baggs for the acoustic transducer (a k&k definity). Direct to a mixing board in my practice room. Also out to a loudbox or powered speakers or PA as the case may be.

K

[jorgemg1984]

Are you enjoying the ms50g? I love mine. Love the ms100bt even more!

[nosoyninja]

Are you enjoying the ms50g? I love mine. Love the ms100bt even more!

Yes. The MS100BT wasn't out when I bought mine. Would prefer stereo I/O. I don't use the amp models, though. My patches all have Graphic EQ, parametric EQ, and one of the HD reverbs. That way I can deal with any nonsense for the acoustic as well as the magnetic tone right there at my feet. (Important when you're going direct).

What about the BT, in you'r opinion, makes it better?

K

[jorgemg1984]

I only use the effects too... well simply put it has one of my favorite delays (carbon copy) and MUCH BETTER overdeives (very nice tube screamer). Made the pedal perfect!

[boognish23]

nosoyninja,

I love the look of that setup. I was watching some clips of the SansAmp Para Driver DI yesterday, and was curious how well it could sound in a clean jazz setting. My impression is that is the best suited for jazz tones of the SansAmp's offerings. I assume you're pretty happy with it?

[nosoyninja]

nosoyninja,

I love the look of that setup. I was watching some clips of the SansAmp Para Driver DI yesterday, and was curious how well it could sound in a clean jazz setting. My impression is that is the best suited for jazz tones of the SansAmp's offerings. I assume you're pretty happy with it?

I am extremely happy with it. I use it mostly as EQ, and only sometimes dial in the "sansamp" knob to get the tubey compression. It handles humbuckers and the super high output single coil in my thorell FV with out problem.

I love it and want another! Ha! A new version just came out with small updates. I regularly just have the sansamp, a HOF reverb and that's it, for traditional jazzy tones (can be either fendery, or polytoney, your pick).

I only went with this more baroque setup cuz I need to switch pickups and stuff on the fly for the music I'm doing now.

K

[Cunamara]

So I've done a couple of rehearsals now with the QSC K8. The first time I used the Baggs Para Acoustic DI (PADI for short) with a reverb pedal plugged into the PADI's effects loop using a stereo Y cable, then running an XLR cable from the PADI to the K8's input. Today I tried a couple of variations.

First, I used the above setup with my ART TubeMP Studio between the PADI and the K8; this added some warmth and depth. I also tried putting my SansAmp GT2 in front of the PADI and also skipping the PADI, running into the GT2 to the TubeMP to the K8. I didn't care for the GT2 with the K8. I really like the FRFR + tweeter sound with my archtop, much to my surprise, and adding a Fender style emulation took me away from rather than closer to a sound I liked.

My favorite setup was plugging into the PADI, having the reverb on the effects loop and then running to the TubeMP into the K8. However, this ends up being a lot of stuff to cable together, and I want to go with simpler rather than more complex setup and teardown, which has me thinking back to Jack Zucker's Kemper thread.

I'm not spending the bucks for a Kemper but am wondering what good alternatives there are for a single box to go in front of the K8- I've thought a bit about the Radial Firefly but that's a bit spendy. What is there amongst the DI options that will provide a good input for the guitar with proper impedance matching, have good quality reverb options, good EQ control (e.g., Bandaxall rather than Fender and really not the blackface sound) and something to provide a bit of warm tube type sound- preferably with an XLR output to go to the K8. There are a lot of all-in-one boxes out there and I'd really appreciate some suggested starting points.

[kamlapati]

... but am wondering what good alternatives there are for a single box to go in front of the K8- I've thought a bit about the Radial Firefly but that's a bit spendy. What is there amongst the DI options that will provide a good input for the guitar with proper impedance matching, have good quality reverb options, good EQ control (e.g., Bandaxall rather than Fender and really not the blackface sound) and something to provide a bit of warm tube type sound- preferably with an XLR output to go to the K8. There are a lot of all-in-one boxes out there and I'd really appreciate some suggested starting points.

Seems like the XLR out is the hard-to-find feature here, otherwise any multi-effect would do. (Just use the parametric or graphic EQ fx rather than an amp model.) OTOH, sounds like the perfect use for a pedal board: hook up your PADI + reverb + whatever with a power supply and you're good to go.

[Cunamara]

Thanks, kamlapati. Of course the PADI can provide an XLR out to the speaker, so that's covered if needed. I guess I was thinking about a DI with some built-in effects and possibly a real tube preamp. A multi-effect unit might be an option.

I know nothing about current multi-effects devices and not even sure where to start. I have a MagicStomp that I haven't even turned on in a long time because the computer software doesn't run- the Mac version was DOA and I'd have to find an old XP computer to use the Windows version. I can't tweak the patches very conveniently or load in new ones without a computer running the management software. Darned shame that Yamaha so badly dropped the ball on a great product. The Zoom ms100bt is strikingly similar in concept with a bit of updating (Yamaha even had something of a patch store like Zoom has; the patches were free but you needed a whole computer to load them in, not a simple real-time Bluetooth smartphone app).

Basically I just want some decent reverb (I like hall/room reverb better than spring reverbs) and some tubey warmth and not much else out of it- I play no fusion, don't have a use for distortion, chorus, flangers, etc. A lot of the multi-effects seem like overkill for my wants- like buying a sledgehammer to crack walnuts.

[kamlapati]

It still sounds to me like a PADI plus a Zoom MS50 or MS100 in effects loop (like the guys above use and like) would be all you need. No PC needed, just patience!

K