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I wrote to Bob Benedetto in 1990. Bob was in Pensacola, Florida then, if I recall. I was living in Indiana. As far as I know, Bob has always unwaveringly used 25" scale length in his archtops since 1990. I have the specification sheet in my box of stuff.
Bob Benedetto wrote the book on archtops literally. I don't argue with Bob. Best thing to do is to ask him about the choice he made.
Now would the manouche guys just come in to kick my arse/ass? And only the Petit Bouche ones please because the Grand Bouche ones play short scale. Wonder why.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-15-2015 at 03:30 PM.
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01-15-2015 03:28 PM
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Yes, the 27 inch was called the Swan .... then the Gosling and the Loon for shorter scale lengths
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Soloway Guitars - Models & Configurations
and a few different body shapes
His web site says he's tuning down a whole step now: DGCFAD
Jim Soloway - Gear
You could probably experiment and find a string gauge that works at standard tuning ...
I also played a Buckethead Les Paul once and really like it, also a 27 inch scale length
Gibson.com: Gibson Buckethead Signature Les Paul
Buckethead's website says he tunes down 1/2 step.
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Why on God's green earth would you even considering reposting an almost verbatim version of the post that originally started a shit storm? Wasn't once enough? Here you are arguing your point, ad nauseam, trying to convince those of us who say we don't have a problem with the 25-9/16" scale . . that we actually do have a problem but are in denial about it . . . oh, except for the non serious players who sit on the couch and play guitar while wifey watches the television. We don't notice the problem because we're just hobbiests . . not *players*. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
You posted here on this thread this morning, after reading my visceral response . . and the responses from others also finding your original post to be objectionable. Then, you courtesly deleted that follow up post almost immediately. Because it was forwarded to my email, I was able to read it. So, I took the time to send you a lengthy PM in response to the post you deleted . . in which I carefully explained why I went off on you, and then I offered an olive branch . . hoping we could just forget it and move past it. So I have no desire to re-hash this with you. It's now old and tired.
By the way . . what you're probably unaware of . . is that when anyone bought one of these GBJSAs new, an Acme Deluxe Finger Stretcher was inclused in the case pocket of each and every guitar case. Now, some of the original buyers wouldn't pass the stretcher on the subsequent buyers . . because they found it to be very effective at stretching other parts of the male anatomy. Some that were passed on to subsequent buyers were discarded immediatly and never used by those subsequent buyers . . because they were soiled with an unidentifiable sticky substance. But . . mine did come with a brand new and very clean Acme Deluxe Finger Stretcher . . as did Mark Goetting's, 2b's and fumblefingers'. Just 2 hours a day, for 2 weeks with the fingers of our left hand in the stretcher . . . and we had no problem what so ever with the longer scale. Oh, also . . I still have mine. I no longer need it. Would you have *any* need for it? I'd be happy to send it off to you.
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Love ya too, Patrick. Thank you for telling me things I didn't know about myself. I am chastened.
I'm heading out to the left field to look for my nuts. I hope I don't walk pass you on the way there. Shit, dawg, you talk to the people living with you the same way? Maybe it is time to ask them like what they really think about you. It is not a jibe at you. Seriously, dawg, do it. Learn to listen to someone other than yourself.
I was the one who walked into this. These Guild-Benedetto Heritage threads are minefields. Don't nobody say nothing to get them dawgs mad. They bite.
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I'm with you on this one - more concerned with girth than length, eh? Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Ooooooooooooo Originally Posted by Hammertone
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I thought long and hard about it. A few of my esteemed mates of this forum have counselled me. I see that I have erred in my ways.
I would like to offer an open apology to Patrick for taking the piss out of him and attempting to wind him up for my own amusement and merriment at his expense. Cultural differences led to a miscommunication of my lame attempts at jocularity.
I hope that Patrick can find it in his magnanimous heart to forgive me. I offer him my friendship and all the judges and politicians in New York. I agree to share them and let him draw the water from the well. Certainly, I can present a bill for such services but I shan't. After all, I am not a Communist.
Oh, wrong script.
Patrick D'A, I offer you an olive branch. Peace be upon you. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest my armpits should I take the piss out of you again.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-16-2015 at 02:01 PM.
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Don Bar-jabber-zini . . . When did I ever refuse anyone an accommodation? All of you know me here. When did I ever refuse, except for one time. And why? Because I believe this on going sentiment of guitar and guitar company bashing is going to destroy JGF in the years to come. I had hoped that we could come here and reason together. And as a reasonable man, I am willing to do what ever is necessary to find a solution to our problems.
But I have selfish reasons for wanting this peace. I am a superstitious man . . and if some unlucky event with a purchase of any brand of guitar should once again bring about the bashing that we here find objectionable . . if the names of CEOs at certain guitar companies are once again unfairly besmirched, if an L5 is found hanging in a jail cell, or if a Golden Eagle should be struck by a bolt of lightning . . then I'm going to blame some of the people in this forum . . and then I do not forgive.
But, that aside, let me say that I swear, on the souls of my grand children, that I will not be the one to break the peace peace that we have made here today.
Buona salute, figlio mio.
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and now, I have to turn my back.....
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Pax Vobiscum
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It was designed to be tuned to standard or below. I've tuned them all over the place but the most common tuning used on them is in fact standard pitch. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
And I've just gone back and read this whole thread. Wow. This went some really weird places considering how mundane the topic was.Last edited by Jim Soloway; 01-20-2015 at 08:00 PM.
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Jim on a side note, not sure how your external DI interface search went but I just bought a the new Universal Audio Apollo Twin 'Solo' and it sounds incredible. Blows the Apogee away for sound imo and is again (imo) the best one on the market up to £1000 and its £550 new. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Comes with some free plugins and directly process's them inside the unit, so you can do guitar tracking with 2ms latency. Thats because it uses true thunderbolt and is the first piece of kit on the market to do so. No break out cables too, just 2xXLR's and a High Z input for guitar in the front.
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Most of my life has been on hold for the last few months while I've been dealing with the decline and death of my father and getting my mother's life into some sort of working order. I'm really just now getting remotely close to beginning to get my own life back in order. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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My condolences Jim, I didn't know. Best Wishes to you and your Mother. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
pretty sure the scale length spec was already set on this guitar before he improved it (the guitar that is).
a judgement call on how far to change the instrument before it was no longer an Artist Award?
yeah, that would be my guess.
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I just read this thread. My humble suggestion is that everyone reflect on the golden rule before posting. And if that doesn't tame the impulse to post verbal hostility, read this book.
If you still must compose a rude post, do so then delete it before sending it and call it therapy.
This is a virtual forum, not a live town hall meeting. You will gain nothing by trying to make someone else look or feel bad. Nothing. And your user name may and should lose credibility.
Okay, now you can click me out of your life.
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I just discovered this thread and read it in its entirety. I am very amused at a few things.
First, 1/16 of an inch is a big deal? Really? Think about it...The distance from the nut to the 12th fret is 1/2 the scale length. Therefore, 1/16" translates to merely a 1/32" difference over the first 12 frets. Perhaps that will affect tone slightly, but I find it hard to believe, rather impossible to believe that anyone can consistently identify an average increase of 0.0026" between frets that results from an increase of 1/16" in the scale length.
Second, with multiple pages of dribble the only information the OP got to his question was that the GBJSAA has a scale length of 25 9/16. Certainly we, as a group, are better than that.
With all of the tremendous talent and knowledge that is out here we all need to get off our high horses about specific gear, styles, design specs, ability, etc, and realize that this can be a very powerful forum if we wish it to be. Arrogance is inevitable in life, but adds nothing positive to this, or any discussion. And yes, there is a big difference between arrogance and confidence.
If we can get this thread on track for the first time that would be great.
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it's not a huge deal but the noticeable difference is within the first five frets. if you don't spend a lot of time in that area it's not a big deal. if you do, and if you like to use stretch fingerings you WILL notice. finally, the string action is stiff on this guitar, not squishy or soft. you feel it in your left hand and you feel it in your pick attack. all of that adds to a pretty stout feel, depending on what you're playing. (referring to the GBJSA from Corona) Originally Posted by snoskier63
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Is a 16th of an inch a big deal? Not really. I have average sized hands for a male.
While I do have a couple of guitars with a 25 9/16" scale and seem okay with it, this does bring up a question and a concern.
First, what is the thinking behind the extra 1/16"?
Second, the extra 1/16" can be a hair harder to fret with closed chords. I know from listening to old timers (by definition, anyone older than me) that hand stretching can get more challenging with age, especially if arthritis is involved.
I guess some day I'll have to focus on fretting the higher frets more.
Rich Severson is pretty open about having to drop his scale length to a Byrdland due to his arthritis. He's a fine player and he sounds great on the instrument.
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I own a Westerly GBAA and a 1971 Westerly AA with the Dearmond 1100. I have played the Corona AA and the Corona JSA as well as an early 60's AA. About the only variation that I have not played is the newer American patriarch series.
Here are my impressions of each:
Early 60's AA : Great guitar, for me probably the best of them as it had a short scale (24.75) and a 1 11/16 inch nut. If I were custom ordering one that would be my preference (maybe I would go with the D'Angelico 25 " Scale that Johnny Smith and Bob Benedetto like...why they did not go with the shorter scale length on the Benedetto AA and Benedetto JSA is a mystery to me, but there are many who like longer scale guitars...more snap and projection). I also like the DeArmond pickup. It is warm and sounds great with tube amps or Polytones.
My 71 AA: Great guitar, likely made by master luthier Carlo Greco, though the 1 5/8 nut and the 25.5 scale length is not perfect for me. It also has a thin neck profile which was favored in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I understand that later in the 70's the nut was increased back to 1 11/16 but the scale length at some point was increased to 25 5/8. Also by the 80's, the pickup and pickguard were changed (not for the better). This guitar is loud enough to play a Gypsy jazz gig without amplification.
For the money (4-5K) The Hoboken and Westerly AA's with the 1100 pickup may be the best value in a carved archtop that exist. I own two vintage D'Angelico's and my 71 AA competes favorably with them soundwise and is only worth 1/3 as much.
My GBAA: This is the second one of these that I have had. The first one was a good guitar, but truly was not a great guitar (It was quiet acoustically, not very warm and did not have great sustain). This one is a great guitar, proving that a guitar made by the same luthiers with different wood can sound very different. This guitar has a fat neck profile, a 1 11/16 nut and a scale length of 25 5/8. It is loud, has great sustain and the Benedetto pickup is great, but only through an acoustic amp, like the AER Compact 60 or Acoustic Image Clarus. Through a tube amp or Polytone it is bright and lacks sustain. Ron Clegg's journey with the GBAA is his own. I have played one Anderson carved archtop and was underwhelmed. The long scale on the GBAA does not cause any tension problems for me. At the going price of 5-6K, these are not as good a deal in my mind as the earlier AA's with the 1100, but if you get a great one, these are well worth the scratch.
Corona guitars. I have played two, a GBAA and a JSA from Corona. Neither was a great guitar, so I cannot personally say go for one of these, though I am sure that great examples of these exist based on some of the glowing reports that I have read. The only difference in the Corona GBAA and the Westerly GBAA is the label (though I am certain that they were made by different luthiers as none of the Westerly luthiers relocated to Corona when Fender closed the Westerly plant). The JSA guitar had a slightly different neck. It was not floating at the body, it made full contact with the body to its terminus. I understand Johnny Smith insisted on this change for better sustain. IMO, all it did was deaden the top and make the guitar quieter than it might otherwise be.
I have read that the American Patriarch AA's returned to the original 1955-1965 short scale, but used the later 60's 1 5/8 nut. I would like to try one, I also would like to try an original 50's JSA. And perhaps a 90's model with the floating Guild humbucker. Then I will have played them all.
I hope my observations will have helped answer the original question.
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Yes, well it was also suggested that a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award didn't sell at $4900, as if that was the going rate for them, and that guitar even failed to meet that low price standard.
Funny how this one sold for $6500....I personally know of another that sold for $6700.
Benedetto Guild Johnny Smith Award Archtop | eBay
Hmmm...well, as you said above about opinions perhaps.
Welcome to the asylum Marc!
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That's a lot of thoughtful information.
I haven't noticed the Johnny Smith neck joint (no air under the fretboard) affected the top, but you may be right. Interesting.
I recently got an American Patriarch AA. I really like it. The nut is the old 1 11/16ths, so it is built like the very early AAs. That was the goal when the built this model. There was some misprint about a narrower nut that has created some confusion.
Thanks.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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