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Hi vinnyv1k,
I bought a Brunetti Singleman 16 from Eddies (Guitarville by Eddie-Vegas) about 2 years ago. The email exchanges with Ed were a bit terse but he promptly answered all of my questions both before and after the sale.
Bottom Line: The amp arrive promptly and in perfect shape. He let me put it on layaway (10% down) while I sold my Mesa Boogie Mk III. I'd do business with him again.
Good luck with your new Gibson.
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01-13-2015 09:22 PM
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Thank you losaltosjoe.
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Well I got the 2013 ES175. I was assured by Eddie's it was perfect. The binding is cracked in half at every fret on the neck. Cutaway is checked and the truss rod is maxed out tight. Plays and sounds good though.
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Ugh! Back it goes. A real black-eye for the seller. Especially for getting future business from members of this forum.
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Send the bloody thing back.
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I think I might be screwed. They have a no refund policy. Only store credit towards another purchase and you pay the shipping back. Tried calling them no answer so I emailed them. We will see what happens.
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I hate to be "that guy" but if you agreed to the purchase of an expensive guitar under these terms, you screwed yourself. Were all of his assurance via email or were they just verbal?
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Whether it be guitars or women, love is often blind.Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 01-17-2015 at 06:12 PM.
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Yep, no surprise. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Well I got the 2013 ES175. I was assured by Eddie's it was perfect. The binding is cracked in half at every fret on the neck. Cutaway is checked and the truss rod is maxed out tight. Plays and sounds good though.
Bullies usually have things to hide.
I hope you resolve it with him quickly. Take pictures of the guitar as soon as you can to catalogue the issues. if you can take it to a tech who will confirm that it is not "Fit for purpose" as the guitar cannot be set up correctly and then have an agreed return with full refund arranged.
Unless you want to keep it but I wouldn't. Plenty of good ones out there at that price on ebay.
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First, communicate with them and give them a chance to make it right. If they won't, then... Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
They sold you an instrument that is not what they described. If they said it was "perfect" and it isn't, you have a good case for them to take it back and refund your money. Selling something to someone that is not what you purport it to be is fraud. Take photos of the defects, print and keep copies of all written communication and document any verbal communication (e.g., by phone) that you had with the seller. Have the guitar examined and documented by a good local guitar tech and provide you with a written description of the flaws (which from your description, BTW, are flaws a two year old guitar should not have). Provide copies of the above by registered mail to the seller and give them a second chance to make it right. If they won't, then...
Time to contact the attorney general in their state for a discussion of fraud in interstate sales. That will get their attention.
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Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian
No he didn't.
Unless the U:S is a lawless place were business and corporations have completel legal control to screw the consumer (oh wait erm..)
You have rights. he said the guitar had no issues. It does, he has therefore broken the verbal contract or written contract you had. He has to uphold his end and if he hasn't then its not a standard return. You are returning the goods due to them being miss sold and 'not fit for purpose'
In the UK this would be so cut and dry the seller would already be sending someone to pick it up at their own expense.
How did you pay?
If you payed by card, cancel the payment or whatever you have to do.
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Vinny, are you sure its the binding that's cracked or is it just the finish? Last year I had some fret creep from a under humidified room and the binding didn't crack at all. Not even the clear. If the lacquer is checked, that could be fixed.
It unusual for the binding to crack.
In any case, you were sold this guitar as new old stock so you should have a warranty claim. I hope it works out for you.
Joe D
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
I wouldn't give him the chance to try and make it right, he's obviously not right.
Don't let him soften you up, he senses your a push he will lean on you. You let him know in no uncertain terms, his illegal fraudulent and highly unethical behaviour.
He will also have to return the postage costs, every single penny his behaviour has cost you
If he's smart, he will realise that its better for him to take it back, do some grovelling and then sell it to someone else.
TAKE PICTURES NOW to back up your case and if you can take it to a guitar tech tomorrow who can look at the truss rod. Try not to tell the seller that YOU did the truss rod check, better its coming from a professional who can back up your claim. Otherwise he might try to claim you have messed it around and its no longer his fault.
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Eddie's just emailed me. They are going to get UPS to pick it up and get me a brand new replacement from Gibson at no cost to me so they are stand up guys.
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Hmm well stand up guys wouldn't try to do this dodgy practice. They are just love bombing you in the hope you dont ruin the name of their business by talking about it on a forum. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
:-)
I can remove my posts if you like?
Also take pice of the guitar before you wrap it so there is no messing around. Take pictures of you re packing it as well, just in case.
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Yeah and remember....people don't go to jail for robbing a bank. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
They go to jail for getting caught robbing a bank.
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Good advise guys !
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Sorry, I just saw this post. I was going to mention that Eddies has a no return for refund policy that is not easy to find on their website. I wanted to make sure that you knew about this before buying. The owner is very strict on this point according to the sale person I spoke with. FWIW, I also got the "we don't sell junk here story" and no one ever mentioned the no refund policy to me. Personally, I'll just go to Dave's, Wildwood, or Wilcutts for future purchases. They have great prices, great customer service, and a real approval period with refund.
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Before you send it back, take lots of good pictures of the defects. Document everything including phone conversations. Having a tech document the flaws would be worth the minor cost. Then, if the replacement is also imperfect or a factory second or any other issue, engage your credit card company and the BBB.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe they will be hard pressed pointing to their website BS return policy when your credit card company is denying payment based on maleficence. However, demonstrating they cheated you requires very good documentation.
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EDDIE's seems to be bending over backwards to make it right. They are sending UPS today to pickup the 175. I probably would have kept it if the truss rod worked. The neck had .030 relief when I got it so I tried to adjust it out to my spec of about .008 but the truss rod was so tight it felt like it was ready to snap. They called Gibson and of course no more regular 175's so I have to get the 1959 model which of course costs more. They have been emailing me and being very professional. They did say the neck was perfect and the truss rod worked though. As far as the binding nib cracks, I have gathered from the other post that is norm for cold climate guitars.
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No, Vinny. Cracked binding nibs are not the norm for cold climate guitars. They are the result of what happens to guitars' fret board binding during the winter months (cold climate) when the home or business ebvironment might be heated by forced warm air, thus very dry air . . thus fret board shrinkage/retraction . . thus cracks in the binding at the nib ends. If you keep the environment where the guitars are kept properly humidified throughout the year, 45% to 55% RH . . there will be no excessively dry air . . thus no fret board shrinkage . . thus no binding cracks at the nib ends. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
However, if the binding is cracking at the nib ends on a guitar . . it's actually speaking to you. It's telling you . . "hey dude . . the room you're keeping me in is too damned dry. Buy me a damned humidifier!!" It's also an indication that more than just the fret board is drying out. If you experience binding cracks at the nib ends . . kkep a close eye on you spruce top as well. Get the guitar's wood rehydrated as quickly as possible.
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Thanks Patrck for the clarification. Being a west coast boy I am niave about these things. Anyway I should have followed my gut on this one. Got me to blame on this one. I have called you guys mad scientists with your humidifiers but now I can see it is for a very good reasons.
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A friend had a similar experience with 'Gary's Classic Guitars'. Guitar was advertised as having 'no damages or imperfections', and it arrived with binding cracks and a major flaw (something between a repaired crack of the wood or at least a full lacquer penetration) which was hidden under the scratchplate. It wasnt enough to send it back, but the communication afterwards was a shame (something like 'all guitars of a certain age have some signs of age, that just makes them more valuable').
A good dealer describes all flaws and shows them in detail on pictures. And while it may lower a price a little once in a while, it is actually an investment in one's own business. After the above, I would never ever buy from Gary's Classic Guitars.
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This is exactly what a forum like this is for. To protect and help each other. This "Eddies" has just lost future business from the entire forum. Customers who are here specifically for he's product. Bad business Eddie,you won't be around long.I feel for you Vinny.
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What an utterly absurd statement to make when you are fullly aware that there are "erm . ." US citizens present as part of this dialog. You sir, are indeed a true idiot with no manners or protocol what so ever. It's very fortunate that we in the US know that your indignant and insulting demeanor are not representitave of the UK people as a whole . . or even a large portion. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
One again, you stupidly speak out of your ass. A verbal contract?? Without a paper trail, as Flyin' Brian pointed out, it's nothing more than "he said she said". Were there witnesses to this conversation that you refer to as a verbal contract? Buyer to judge in a small claims court; "your honor, the sales clerk on the phone told me the guitar was perfect. When I got it it was far less than perfect" Judge to seller's sales clerk; "did you say that?" Sales clerk; "your honor, I said nothing of the sort. When asked to describe the condition, my only reply was "it's fine . .we don't sell junk". Judge to buyer; can you prove this conversation took place as you describe it?"You have rights. he said the guitar had no issues. It does, he has therefore broken the verbal contract or written contract you had. He has to uphold his end and if he hasn't then its not a standard return. You are returning the goods due to them being miss sold and 'not fit for purpose'
Get where I'm going with this . . Mr. Rocket scientist ATH??? Or, would you like me to slow down so your simpleton brain can catch-up??
A simple policy to follow when posting . . "put your brain in gear, before you put your mouth in motion"
There's no way you're going to convince anyone on the thread that the decisions made in the UK on matters like this are as stuipid as you describe. Get real.In the UK this would be so cut and dry the seller would already be sending someone to pick it up at their own expense.
Again . . "he said she said" When (if) this charge against the buyers credit card is challenged, the credit card company would indeed put the matter in dispute and tell the buyer he can hold off on the payment until the matter is resolved. Then, the credit card company would contact the seller, who by the way is ALSO a customer of the credit card company. (do you understand this so far? or would you like me to slow down for you?) Invision in your warped limited capacity to comprehend mind, a conversation from the credit card dispute agent, mirroring that of the judge and the seller in a small claims court. Then, the credit card company contacts the buyer . . "Mr. Buyer, the seller completely disputes your claims. I could take this further if you have documentation confirming what you claim the seller assured you of. But, I really can't do anything just based upon a conversation that you told me about . . which may or may not accurately describe the conversion as you realted it to me.How did you pay?
If you payed by card, cancel the payment or whatever you have to do.
Further, why don't you try to take a step back from continuously insulting the country that enabled you and the rest of your family to continue on with a free life style. In other words, why don't you stop talking like a childish ass-hole? I know I for one would be appreciative of that.Last edited by Patrick2; 01-22-2015 at 10:21 AM.
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@ Patrick2 - I regret the rather pathetic posing and swearing coming back; in any case, here are some hints from a less emotional perspective:
- in contract law, "a verbal contract??" counts as much as a contract that is documented by deed. And, believe it or not, oral misrepresentations that were made when a contract is concluded can form the basis for claims under misrepresentation laws, unless e.g. an exclusion clause or parole evidence rule operates to the contrary.
- 'He said, she said' can be an issue of evidence; but enforcement is to be differentiated both under common law and in civil law jurisdictions from whether or not an obligation exists. Evidence may be extractable in various ways, who knows if there was a witness to the oral statements, or maybe there is a transcript of the conversation by the buyer, hints of the conversation can be found in emails, etc. Modern media has become the nightmare of fraudsters who rely on denying what they stated based on lack of evidence. And again, all this is independent of whether an obligation exists or not.
- Quite tailored to avoid complicated evidence procedures, consumer protection laws here in Europe go indeed rather far in terms of protecting people in so called 'distance contracts' (see section 6 of http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer...uidance_en.pdf). If the seller runs an online business, then a consumer can send back the received goods within a specified period of time, even if they are fully in accordance with all representations made. All credit card companies follow the distance selling regulations in Europe, and so getting a refund if the goods are in fact sent back is the easiest thing in the world. It is therefore true that in the UK a comparable case would be 'cut and dry' (albeit not for reasons of the oral misrepresentation, since the right to rescind the contract exists under EU law irrespective of whether a misrepresentation was actually made or not).
- Finally, even if consumer protection in the US does not go as far as in Europe, there seems to be an implied warranty of merchantability, which would prevent that a seller which sells a guitar as new (or as "from 2013 with plastic protection still on") can deliver a faulty wrack. While I am not trained in US law, I believe such implied warranty is provided by Art 2 UCC, which prescribes that goods sold must conform to the following legal requirements, irrespective of oral assurances made:
@ The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
@ They must be fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
@ They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
@ They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
@ They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.
If that is right, then what we have here is not a question of evidence of oral statements made, as you assumed, but of conformance of delivered goods with the UCC, which is an entirely different issue.
- I take your comment of "the country that enabled you and the rest of your family to continue on with a free life style" and your apparent aggressive (narcissistic?) behaviour when it comes to 'national issues' as a further proof of my theory that US fundamentalism is in fact quite comparable to Taliban fundamentalism. While the irrational believe focusses on another dogma, the pattern appears to be very similar
Last edited by Phil in London; 01-22-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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