Jazz tone: Amp vs Guitar

[Cunamara]

Also, don't be afraid to experiment with extreme settings on your amp, as they may result in the elusive tone you seek. For example, there was a thread floating around about achieving Grant Green's tone. One of the posters who brought some of the wisest insight encouraged players to max out their mids while lowering the treble and bass knobs almost to 0.

With a standard Fender tone stack, those settings will get you the flat tonal EQ that usually works best for jazz. Fender amps are voiced for single coil solidbody guitars, so an archtop with a humbucker tends to not work that well. It will have harsh highs and feedback on the bass strings.

[Chimera1to1]

Hi Eduardo,

Have you tried recording your playing, both sounds, the amp and guitar?

To reach a conclusion as to what you need, you really could do with a firmer description of where you are now with your sound. Its easy, listening live, to just feel dissatisfied but not have any idea why. If you listen to a recording then it clarifies things. You get a reference point to listen critically and simple tweaks like, "less treble" or "more mids" jump up very obviously from a recording.

There isn't a magic bit of gear. If there were then we would all have identical rigs!
Start with what your playing sounds like recorded, perhaps post some here and then the advice given will genuinely tailored. Getting new gear is great fun but you might already have a guitar/amp combination that just needs tweaking to get the sound you want

[Klatu]

With a standard Fender tone stack, those settings will get you the flat tonal EQ that usually works best for jazz. Fender amps are voiced for single coil solidbody guitars, so an archtop with a humbucker tends to not work that well. It will have harsh highs and feedback on the bass strings.

Absolutely correct. I still use other settings on the amp depending on the guitar I'm playing, but I like the thought of variety in tone depending on what the situation calls for.

I'd like to play an Ampeg Gemini amp someday since I've heard that they were voiced flat when all knobs are set at noon.

[Greentone]

+1 recording straight to the board will tell you a lot about your guitar. Then you can try adjusting the amp.

[mr quick]

On the topic of amps, tried my darling AF75 through a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 solid-state amplifier... Was pleasantly surprised, definitely going to use it for 'bigger' gigs.

edit: Tried the epi dot in it... did NOT work as well..

[entresz]

I find the amp makes the most difference. Some amps are just not designed to get a jazz sound. One of the better examples I can remember was a Marshall JCM2000 I tried once. Boomy and brittle all at once. Really awful- even for non jazz sounds it was terrible, the overdrive was nasty.

Fenders tend to be a bit boomy and too bright if everything is set on 5, backing off the highs and lows a bit tends to work really well to get a warm jazz sound.

Re the Peavey mentioned in the above comment --
I have a Peavey Bandit 65 that is a superb clean amplifier, it's from the early/mid 1980s. Loads of headroom and really nice warm sounds. It takes overdrive pedals very nicely too. Peaveys get overlooked a bit, particularly the older ones.

[javierfiji]

I have a Gibson Es 137. years ago I use to have a Marshall Valvastate 80V, and had to use it in some Jazz gigs before getting a Roland Cube and then moving to a Henriksen.


at that time I used a Boss gt8 to help to get a better response from the amp.

[Danno1985]

I actually picked up a used AS-73 for my kid brother who's 13 and am helping him learn some jazz things, as well as whatever else helps motivate him to play. Great guitar for the money. I did a little setup/fretwork on it before I gave it to him, and with 10-46 Ernie Balls it can get a good "jazz sound" - definitely plugged into my BF Pro Reverb, but even through the crap SS Fender Bullet I have as a bench testing amp, it sounded good. I'd have no qualms about using that guitar at any gig I play. The amp is important, yes, but I also think a good clean setup without low-string buzz is important. But really, what is "jazz tone"? Last time I saw Scofield he was doing his organic trio thing and played a Telecaster through his Vox AC30, the sound sure as heck was different from Kenny Burrell, but the vocabulary was jazz. That's what matters.

[Little Jay]

This is a great thread! You may conclude that many ways lead to Rome, but I enjoyed reading all the accumulated experience.
After some 20 years of playing I settled for the humbucker thru a Fender BF/SF-amp sound, but I noticed I can use any type of guitar as long as it has thick flatwounds on it and is well adjusted with an almost straight neck. I currently use a Gibson ES-333 with Classis 57 pups through a Guyatone Twin Reverb-clone with old Pyle speakers (with the Fender Blue Label).
Inspite of how flexible I am with guitars, it's strikingly how dependent I am of the right amp, not even the tone, but more the way it reacts to my playing. Modern Marshall-type amps never worked for me (never played an old tweed Bassman, curious if that would do it or not. Same goes for the tweed Deluxe). Amps that I have that work for me - besides the Guyatone Twin Reverb - are a tweaked Fender Blues Deluxe (with a 12ay7 in V1 and a Jensen C12K speaker), an Award Session BluesBaby 22 with Jensen Neo 12-100 speaker and an AER Alpha with a Joyo American Sound pedal in front of it. When I play venues where there's an amp, I am always happy to see a Fender BF/SF: Twin, Deluxe, Pro, Vibro - all good (the reissues are fine too, btw). Roland Cubes do sound good to me, but the response and feel are not quite what I like, but close.
To conclude I agree with Danno1985: using a jazz vocabulary is what makes a player sound jazz in the end, no matter how jazzy their sound is.

[Keira Witherkay]

i think it's all in the players "idea/vision" of what he/she wants as a jazzy tone.....and that most players if they like a particular tone can tweak it out of most guitars or amps within reason

an interesting story ........just yesterday i had a jam session with my mentor ... a 75 yr old very accomplished jazz guitarist ...he was playing an original made in new york Epiphone archtop from 50's with flat strings and a pick and into his trusty old peavey special (12 " ) (very old usa made model) solid state amp and i was using my 90's samick /valley arts custom shop SMX-1 (a wierd solid body tele shape but more Gibson tone /feel ) also with flat strings but lighter 10's vs his 13's and i play with my fingers not a pick into a Fender excelsior amp (tube amp with 15" speaker) and half way through the session he turned to me and told me that he though our tones were very similar ....despite the different amps and guitars ,,,,,,BUT we both like the same type of jazz tone and set our sound to sound close to the sound we "personally" like and him being my mentor ...we like similar sounds and listen to a lot of the same artists ........ and yes this is 100% true and quite ironic when i saw this thread i just had to share yesterdays experience and comments ..