Let's Talk PAF (Or Similar) Pickups!

**JPMike** · 10-30-2014, 03:27 AM

What would be your favorite PAF pickup for an archtop? Either with laminate or solid woods. On a semi hollow?

I have tried a lot of stuff, Lundgrens, Lollars, DiMarzios, Duncans, Kent Armstrongs, WCRs, Bareknuckles, Gibson Classic 57s, Tim Shaws, Custom Gibsons, PRS 57/08s, Suhrs, Benedetto B6 or whatever it's called and other stuff I don't recall at the moment. On various guitars, solids, semis and archtops.

Probably the best bang of the buck are the Duncan '59 and the APH-1. The latter being a bit more mid heavy.

The one that really comes into mind as one of my favorites is the Lundgren Heaven '57. So warm with clarity and not sounding muddy or boomy on the low end. Overtones and harmonics really jump out. I got a pair if those on my Vestax D'Angelico NY-SS 3 and I always get compliments on how good it sounds. Kinda miss it.

I'd say the Lollar Imperials, the Kent Armstrong that Victor Baker uses, the Tim Shaws and the SD 59 are coming close to the Lundgren.

The one I didn't like at all was the Benedetto pickup. So weak to my ears.

I read good things about Throbaks, Sheptones, Voodoo 59s, Manlius pickups and some others I don't recall. I feel like trying new stuff on the Guild I am getting, which has a Seth Lover on the neck. For some reason, I know I might not like it, cause I didn't in some guitars that had it on.

**Frank67** · 10-30-2014, 07:04 AM

If you are into boutique stuff I can recommend th Amber spirit of 59 - supersweet!

**Archie** · 10-30-2014, 07:07 AM

Ooops wrong door!

(Slowly backs out of the door, making as little noise as possible)

**marcwhy** · 10-30-2014, 07:47 AM

Taku Sakashta (RIP) swore by JM Rolph's PAFs for his guitars: J. M. Rolph Pickups and Rewinding Service [Note: worst web site ever, but great pickups! Just call him.]

I've been enjoying my custom humbuckers from ROADHOUSE PICKUPS

**zigzag** · 10-30-2014, 08:30 AM

I believe Guitar Player recently reviewed PAF types, and Lollar and Lindy Fralins rated highest, for what that's worth.

PAF Style Humbucker Roundup

**Hjalmiz** · 10-30-2014, 08:37 AM

Duncan Antiquity ! Perfect for hollow Guitars !

**rpguitar** · 10-30-2014, 08:47 AM

You are entering a true abyss, capable of distracting you for an endless period of time seeking something that is so subtle and arcane as to be nearly unobtainable.

Most of the PAF pickups are "just fine." I know that sounds like an ignorant statement, and you will likely ignore it in turn. But it's more or less true. No pickup is "best" by itself. They are all only best when matched with a suitable guitar, since the resonance and construction of each guitar interacts dramatically with the pickup, demanding different qualities.

To start obsessing over pickup replacement before even receiving and playing your new guitar is absurd. Mike, save this B.S. for when you are an old fart like some of us. Your young years need to be spent not wasting time seeking grails that don't exist. I'm serious. As a young person, you don't have that perspective yet. One day, you will not be able to absorb the music and memorize information like you can now. Save the quest for then, and just play the damn guitar.

I mean this with all good intentions, however futile it might be.

P.S. I have owned original PAFs as well as early patent # pickups... they are just another cookie in the jar, not made of sonic gold.

**BigMikeinNJ** · 10-30-2014, 09:15 AM

Surprised not to see Ibanez Super 58s on your list.
I like what Roger said. Just live and play

**iim7V7IM7** · 10-30-2014, 10:19 AM

I believe that there are MANY excellent humbuckers available today. The two that I have settled upon that I am very happy with are:

Kent Armstrong Custom Adjustable Pole Piece Humbucker on my archtop...Best balance of warmth, thickness and clarity among floaters that I've played.

Jason Lollar Imperial Low-Winds on my semi-hollowbody...excellent clarity with a touch of warmth when played clean with great bloom and harmonics when overdriving an amp.

**Archie** · 10-30-2014, 10:25 AM

I would chime in only to say that, I have never been happy with Gib Clas 57's.

They are punchy but too muddy in the bass. As Mike already knows, I like the Ibanez Custom's better, although I'm sure there are better pick-ups but thats a subjective view.

**robertm2000** · 10-30-2014, 11:58 AM

i will add Pete Biltoft's Vintage Vibe Guitars pickups. Not only because of the pickups' sound but as much because of Pete's customer relations.

When I looked to get new pickups I phoned some of the boutique pickup companies. Unfortunately, whoever answered the phone at Lollar Pickups was snooty and terribly non-friendly - I got a lecture for not knowing exactly what I wanted in a pickup! It certainly couldn't have been Jason Lollar - I did talk with Mr. Lollar another time, and his voice was nothing like this anti-something person! But it did put me off and I called Pete Biltoft after that.

Mr. Biltoft answered his own phone and was amazing. First things he asked were, what kind of sound did I want, and then what sort of physical package. We must have exchanged a dozen e-mails before he made the pickups. And he nailed exactly what I was looking for! A cool secondary point is Pete Biltoft's interchangeable magnets. His pickups are built so you can exchange magnets in a few seconds. Pete has Alnico 2, 3, 5, and ceramic magnets available, and supplies two magnet sets, your choice with every pickups. Bottom line, I bought the vintage Vibe pickups, and sold all my other dozen-plus electric guitars!

Vintage Vibe Guitar Pickups

**Patrick2** · 10-30-2014, 12:06 PM

Totally agree with rpguitar. Mike, you haven't even gotten the guitar yet . . . but you are contemplating taking the Seth Lover out and replacing it with a Duncan '59?? What's up with that?? The only way possible that would make sense would be if you have already owned an X700 with a seth and hated it. We know that's not the case here.

I've got guitars with '59s and with Seths. I'm talking about 17" archies similar to the one you just bought. I've played countless Heritage arch tops with either . . . as that's what is in them almost 100% of the time. If a customer doesn't spec something different, Charlie (at the Heritage plant) will automatically go with the Seths. You will need dog-like hearing to detect any kind of a difference in the Seth and the '59 at the volume levels you will be playing the X700. If you were asking about a solid body guitar, such as a Les Paul . . we could definitely discuss the nuances. But, not a 17" archie that will be played at moderately low levels of volume.

There have been quite a few suggestions in response to your OP question. But, Roger summed it up best . . "Cookies in a jar".

Do yourself a big favor . . wait until you get the guitar . . . play it for a few weeks with the pups it currently has in it. Tweek the amp you'll be playing through, to try and find "your tone". If after a couple of weeks of futzing with it you are still unsatisfied, then come back and let us all know what you dislike about the pups and what tone you are trying for but not getting. Then, and only then will anyone's recommendations be worth considering. But, even more credible than what you might hear here . . you can call people like Rolph, Fralin, Kent Armstrong . . etc. Tell them what you have and the tone you're looking for. They're the experts . . not us.

**Patrick2** · 10-30-2014, 12:09 PM

I guess I was typing when robertm2000 was posting his recfommendation to contact the people who make the pups. I agree totally with him, as well.

**JPMike** · 10-30-2014, 12:58 PM

I will get back to everyone extensively when I get home.

I hope I didn't piss people off.

**robertm2000** · 10-30-2014, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by JPMike

I hope I didn't piss people off.

Not at all! Us guitarists have definite - and therefore pretty strong - tastes, especially in gear. Look how many people are reading the gear section of this forum as compared to other sections! The point of this particular thread is, I think, is just to be careful and do your research before you buy, because we do want you to be happy. After all, it concerns your ears, and what guitarist wouldn't admit that his ears form one of the most important parts of his anatomy!

**jads57** · 10-30-2014, 06:48 PM

Manilus!

**Greentone** · 10-31-2014, 03:03 PM

Your guitar and your amp are the signal chain. PAFs in a great guitar...played through a sucko amp sound meh. Patent pickups in a Norlin-era Gibson...played through a terrific amp sound darned good. You have to consider the entire signal chain, in other words. As a rule, a vintage Gibson with PAF pickups are going to sound outstanding when played through a decent amplifier.

For example, a late-50s L-5CES through a blackface Twin Reverb is sonic heaven for bluesy, hardbop jazz. You are going to kick some tail with that rig. Many companies have more or less figured out the PAF formula. I personally prefer Duncan, but other pickups sound excellent to me, too. I have Duncans in my Norlin-era ES-335 and really like the results, especially when compared with the quite hot humbuckers that came in the '75 originally. (I keep them around, of course, for the originality of the guitar--but I _play_ the guitar with Duncans.)

**docbop** · 10-31-2014, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I guess I was typing when robertm2000 was posting his recfommendation to contact the people who make the pups. I agree totally with him, as well.

I will contact PUP makers early in the process for info, but they of course a bias to there own brand, and many are going to recommend their higher margin SKU. In long run I will talk to people I know who's ears I trust.

**coolvinny** · 10-31-2014, 04:46 PM

I am very happy with the Lollar Imperial standard wind I have in my laminate archtop. For a while, I felt it was too muddy when playing through a 12" speaker cab, but I adjusted my pole pieces (over and over again...) and started thinking more about cab placement, and all my problems were solved.

I am also very happy with the Gibson Burstbucker Neck HB I have in my chambered LP. It does jazz just fine.

**Jazz_175** · 11-01-2014, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

.... I personally prefer Duncan, but other pickups sound excellent to me, too. I have Duncans in my Norlin-era ES-335 and really like the results, especially when compared with the quite hot humbuckers that came in the '75 originally. (I keep them around, of course, for the originality of the guitar--but I _play_ the guitar with Duncans.)

Which Duncans do you use?
thanks

**LtKojak** · 11-01-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by JPMike

What would be your favorite PAF pickup for an archtop?

That's Gertrude. She hosts a "Smooth Vintage Whisperer™" (A3neck/A2bridge") mag combo modded Duncan Jazz set.

That's my #1. She hosts a stock Electric City Pickups RD-59 Hybrid set (A4).

That's my #2. She hosts a "Chewy Whisperer™" (UOA5 neck and bridge") mag combo modded Duncan Antiquity set.

That's my #3 and Guitar Synth controller. She hosts a "Vintage Whisperer™" (A3neck/UOA5bridge") mag combo and "Boutique Conversion™" modded Epiphone Alnico Classic Pro she originally came with.

That's the modding I've made in an illustrated series. If you care to take a gander, here it is:

Epi Probuckers: A close view, pt. 1 - MyLesPaul.com

Epi Probuckers: A close view, pt. 2 - MyLesPaul.com

Epi Probuckers: getting the job done pt. 1 - MyLesPaul.com

Epi Probuckers: DONE! - MyLesPaul.com

Any comments are welcome. Enjoy!

HTH,

**TOMMO** · 11-01-2014, 08:50 AM

Never expected a discussion like this around here....

Not putting down the op or anybody who has a strong opinion on a certain type / brand of pickups but a discussion like: "What's the best PAF replica" is usually to be found in more rock-oriented forums and for the most part those who participate are the ones who have never and will never play out, let alone gig...

Actually: quite refreshing to see the "jazz cats" being obsessed with minute details of equipment, too.

oh, btw: I like the original Shaw PAFs in my '82 ES 335 and the OTPG pickups that I put in my Tokai 335...

**b_goat** · 11-01-2014, 12:52 PM

Minute details of equipment? You've come to the right place (well, one of them)...

**HeyNow** · 11-01-2014, 05:08 PM

Uh oh PAF threads abound!

I replied to the other one,

PAF Style Humbucker Roundup

**HeyNow** · 11-01-2014, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by marcwhy

Taku Sakashta (RIP) swore by JM Rolph's PAFs for his guitars: J. M. Rolph Pickups and Rewinding Service [Note: worst web site ever, but great pickups! Just call him.]

I've been enjoying my custom humbuckers from ROADHOUSE PICKUPS

Interesting. I know he wound and sold his own (Taku).