Armstrong Handmade 12 pole Floating PAF vs Armstrong Handmade 12 Pole Mini

[Robert56RI]

If you asked him just about "sound quality" then his seemingly unhelpful response makes sense. Of course they're both good ('cause Kent made 'em and he thinks so!). If you had asked about the tonal differences, you might have gotten more detail in the reply, although perhaps still not.

I hope you'll post a follow up about your Lollar JS when it arrives. I have an L-5C with a Gibson JS pickup and while it is not brittle sounding, it's a tad lifeless, and doesn't really do the guitar's acoustic tone justice when amplified. I'd love a drop in replacement if the Lollar fits. I believe the pickup itself is a dead match, but I'm not as sure about the mounting bracket, because Lollar's site doesn't mention where the screw holes are relative to the bracket arm length.

Hi Roger,

I fired off another question to Kent. I'll let you know what he says.

I will post a follow up when I get the Lollar in.

Is the Gibson JS a different model than the Gibson BJB that is on the Citation? Although it was some years ago, I have heard the Gibson BJB. I wasn't playing it, but not a bad pickup, if I recall. Small detail but, Gibson tells me they will not sell you the BJB, unless it's attached to a Citation or maybe a Gibson Custom Shop L-5 Premier of theirs.


I've had to have the Lollar pickup made, as I was told that the Lollar JS was out of stock on the gold cover model. Seeing as I'm having mine made, you might want to explore the possibility of having the Lollar people just omit the holes in the bracket, so you could custom position them for your guitar, if it's a problem. Initially though, you might call Lollar (I spoke to Jimmy, who was very responsive to all my questions.) and ask them what the hole position measurements are. I don't know how much precision you might get or would need over the phone, though.

[rpguitar]

Hi Robert -

The BJB has a hotter, thicker output and does not have adjustable pole pieces. It emerged in the late 1970s - 1979 possibly - with the Gibson Super V BJB guitar, whereas the JS pickup came out with the Gibson Johnny Smith.

I had a BJB on a circa 1980 L-5C that I sold. Very nice pickup with a sweet tone, but I really prefer to be able to adjust the individual string balance, so not my ideal floater.

[Robert56RI]

To each their own tone. I don't think I have ever heard a pickup on any guitar that I liked with the tone wide open or with no tone control (at least when I'm playing it, since I have no idea how someone else's tone control is set). It's like someone is sticking ice picks in my ears. A tone control is absolutely essential to me.

Yes, I would agree. Your going to have to adjust the tone. However subtle, I prefer to do the tone adjustments on the amp itself. With a good pickup you can. But that's just my preference. Nevertheless, whether the tone adjustments are made on the guitar, the amp or both, a good pickup will be able to be adjusted wherever you do it to show the guitar tone in it's best light. A good pickup, though, shouldn't be so bright that it can't be optimally adjusted at the amp. If I can't adjust the tone at the amp, I have the wrong pickup, way too bright. By the way, I do not like a real bright tone. We're not talking flat top steel string acoustic.

[2bornot2bop]

I asked Ken about the two pickups (PAF full sized 12 pole and Johnny Smith type mini 12 pole). This is what I asked: In regards to "the 12 pole PAF floating pickup vs the 12 pole mini humbucking pickup Johnny Smith style... The issue for me is sound quality. Are they both equal in sound quality?

This was his response:

"They are equally as good trust me on this one !!!!"

Kent Armstrong Handwound USA Pickup Archtop Guitar Neck Gold Mini Humbucker Jazz | eBay

Kent Armstrong Handwound PAF USA Made Archtop Jazz Guitar Neck Pickup Humbucker | eBay

[Robert56RI]

If you asked him just about "sound quality" then his seemingly unhelpful response makes sense. Of course they're both good ('cause Kent made 'em and he thinks so!). If you had asked about the tonal differences, you might have gotten more detail in the reply, although perhaps still not.

I hope you'll post a follow up about your Lollar JS when it arrives. I have an L-5C with a Gibson JS pickup and while it is not brittle sounding, it's a tad lifeless, and doesn't really do the guitar's acoustic tone justice when amplified. I'd love a drop in replacement if the Lollar fits. I believe the pickup itself is a dead match, but I'm not as sure about the mounting bracket, because Lollar's site doesn't mention where the screw holes are relative to the bracket arm length.

I rephrased my question to Kent Armstrong about his full-sized (PAF) vs mini-humbucking floating pickups. I asked him if he could describe the tonal differences between the 12 pole PAF and the 12 pole mini. His reply was:

"The mini is a bit tighter in sound because of it’s slightly less space between the two rows of poles.
But sonically the same and tonally .."

I then asked him:

"So it sounds like you are saying, in terms of frequency response, the mini does not extend quite so low as the PAF, but is the same through the mids and highs, having perhaps a little quicker and slightly less low bass response. Is that the basic idea?"

He replied:

"You got it !!"

I have the JS Lollar installed now, and it sounds great. Even without a tone control on my guitar, the pickup sounds full, balanced, and smooth. Gone are all the nasty, spiky tone anomalies of the old KA PAF-0. I've been able to make tonal adjustments using the amp. Also, along with the amp settings, I've noticed that I can affect the tone just a bit by rolling back the volume control just slightly to say maybe 7/8ths (or less) to find the sweet spot of the pickup. I remember seeing an interview with Vince Gill, of all people, in which he would do just that; slightly roll off the volume control on his Tele to get the perfect tone out of his guitar. It's just another tonal option that can work in certain situations and you can hear that with this pickup.

Now, I'm not saying a tone control wouldn't work or would not be needed with the Lollar if that is what the player was going for. It's just that the Lollar doesn't require one like was suggested with the KA PAF-0. At this point with the Lollar JS, we would be dealing in comparatively fine gradations of tone. The KA PAF-0 was so far out in left field that there was nothing I could throw at it that could overcome the basic sonic signature of that pickup, capacitors and tone controls notwithstanding. Like they say, it would be like putting make up on a dirty face.

I'm very happy with the Lollar JS. For a mini-humbucking floating pickup, I think Jason did a very nice job.

[Woody Sound]

Flamed!! I don't think so! I've just ordered a Lollar Johnny Smith pickup. I'll let you know what it sounds like. It's got to be better than the Armstrong PAF 0 that's on the guitar right now. I'm really not sure what Kent was thinking when he created that pickup. My Campellone Special is a very well balanced guitar acoustically, so why would it sound so horribly tipped in the mid range, thin and ragged in the treble with the PAF 0 through different amps?

Stumbled into this late, sorry. Aren't the PAF and PAF-0 two different pickups?

[Robert56RI]

Stumbled into this late, sorry. Aren't the PAF and PAF-0 two different pickups?

Yes, the pickup I had on my Campellone Special as original equipment was a specific model from Armstrong that is handmade, called the PAF 0. It is a smooth top, floating humbucker and is smaller than the regular (or full size) humbucking pickup that he makes.

If you go to Campellone's site and look at his Special model, you'll see the pickup.

http://www.mcampellone.com/Models/special.htm

[jads57]

The wider or larger the pickup's appature(size) is, the fuller the sound in my experience. i.e. mini hum vs. std. humbucker. Again there are other variables such as amount of windings, magnet choice,etc. I found KA 12 polepiece Alnico larger floating p/up to be about as good as it gets. Hope this helps!

[wagz]

If your going that route, I would strongly recommend looking into Kinman's Extra Vintage humbucking pickup, which is 30% underwound compared to his Astound pickup, which is a hotter pickup, not really suitable for a jazz archtop. I just changed out the Seymour Duncan Benedetto approved A-6 on my 2001 Guild Benedetto X-700. What an improvement! Clear detailed lows and mid-ranges, not mushy, smooth even trebles and a lot of harmonic detail. It's truly a beautiful sounding pickup, perfect for arch top guitar. Kinman does his homework before releasing a pickup.


Here is the link to the Kinman pick ups site:


http://www.kinman.com/




Here is the link to the Kinman Extra Vintage pick up. Just scroll down to the third pick up description. It is the Extra Vintage, not the Extra Vintage Astound which is a hotter pickup.


http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/humbucker/humbucker.php#vintage


Here is another link on Kinman's site to the Extra Vintage pick up. Again, you will need to scroll down.


http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/humbucker/humbucker.php#vintage

Hi, Robert! I am seriously considering getting this Kinman Vintage Astound. I'd like to know more about it, though. For instance, is it really less noisy than a traditional humbucker? Do you still have the pickup or any clips/video made using it??