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Thanks, Feet! This is encouraging. I will contact him.
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04-13-2014 08:39 PM
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I understand.
Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
Thanks again for starting this thread. I would like to have KB's tone (sorry if I was not clear and implied playing like him - such is the nature of the written word.)
Just to be clear, you are not chasing rainbows and I think you will get the sound you desire if you keep researching and have a chance to try these pedals.
Lots of choices, here. I am going to try and be patient and try the ones that interest me.
Good luck to you on your final decision.
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Pshaw. This thread sucks! I peeked in here thinking: "hmmm. Boosters, that should result in some mudslinging for sure!"
But lo and behold! You guys are actually having rational discourse! A civilized dialogue! What has this forum come to! No one is even invoking "forum etiquette" or anything!
Sheesh. I'm cancelling my account for sure. This is totally not what I signed up for.
:-)
BTW, I use my sandamp paradriver as a clean boost and you can add a bit of gnarly to it also. It's useful to have a "blend" knob in addition to a drive knob. It's like a wet/dry control, so you can set exactly how much unprocessed signal gets mixed with the "driven" signal.
K
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Dear Eddie,
just my 0.02$ worth of experience. I went through many pedals in recent years. For me personally, the character pedals don't work at all. Tried a blonde and hated everything about it. Others love it, so its probably that I am too silly to use it right. I also really didn't like the type of grit the spark booster provides on its own (I actually prefer the mini, because it really is clean whereas the bigger spark has not much volume on tap if the gain is set really low in the neutral setting). It is great to drive an already overdriving amp or pedal but on its own, meh. The paradriver might work, but I really don't like how the knobs interact in that thing. But for setting it once and then never touch it again it might do the job well. The EP booster is a great pedal, but is voiced for rock, e.g. To my ears it accentuates frequencies that cater to a rock audience. Never played an RC booster but read good things about it.
In terms of low drive overdrive pedals I think that the Boss Bluesdriver works great (though I am certainly not a fan of Boss pedals in general). With a low gain setting it provides a wonderful timbre that I would even like for jazz. Very subtle, very tuby. It doesn't start to really distort before noon. It is a bit noisy though if you put the volume high. A super nice low gain distortion pedal with a warm, yet transparent tone is the mad professor sweet honey overdrive. IMHO it doesn't get much better than that. Also stellar is the Okko Diablo (but that seems to be mostly a german niche product)
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Hey Frank, interesting about the Boss. I will have to try one. Originally Posted by FrankLearns
I don't mean to contradict your opinion but I think the Diablo would be way too much drive for the OP. I had one of those and a Twin Sonic also by OKKO. Beautifully constructed pedals but really more for the rock and blues market I think. Even at zero there was too much drive. Also I found that both those OKO pedals changed the sound completely when engaged.
Same deal with the Menatone Red Snapper mentioned by someone else…..the drive was subtle enough but you lost all bass and even when you dialled it in with the pedal it wasn't quite the same.
Same deal with the Bearfoot Honeybee which is actually described as " The Honey Bee sounds and reacts like small vintage combos with nicely worn tubes and speakers"
Well it had way too much OD even on zero so I'm not sure about that description.
I even tried a modified Tube Screamer…it had every mod available….every switch known to man. Sounded like doggy doo. It distorted if you even LOOKED at it! Sounded like someone shoved your guitar into the neck of a beer bottle. It was Kazoo time.
It's really tough to find a pedal that won't suck the life out of an arch top. I'm sure all the pedals I bought and have mentioned would have sounded fine with a Strat or LP. As soon as you put an Arch top through them…..different ballgame.
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Richard - you, me and Whit Smith ought to get together, and find some way to make a preamp pedal that clones the tone of pre-tweed, octal tube-based circuits, like the EH-150, Gibson BR series, and early Valco/National/Oahu amps.
That said, beside the differences in tone between octal-based preamps and nine-pin, 12AX7-based tweed circuits, I think a huge part of the touch-sensitivity comes from the field-coil speaker. Because the speaker uses an electromagnet, the speaker response is variable in a way that a permanent magnet speaker is not.
Even then, I think part of the trick is to limit the frequency response. The evolution from pre-tweed, to tweed, to blackface is very much a quest for higher fidelity and more accurate reproduction. Funny how that very specific inaccuracy is what we're chasing after. I don't think it's just a matter of boosting/reducing certain frequencies, I think there's some high and low pass filtering that needs to happen.
I know Whit's been using a custom preamp in front of some brown-face Fenders, so I think there's hope.
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Dear Philco, Originally Posted by Philco
thanks for the feedback! It may well be that the Okko has too much grit. However, pedals like that, and I definitely know that from the sweet honey, nicely clean up if one backs down the volume knob and hit the strings more softly. I do that a lot with that pedal and find the tones one gets very nice. I haven't tried with an archtop though. I will try tonight and report back ... Or maybe record a little pathetic video.
cheers,
Frank
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I'll buy one!! Originally Posted by campusfive
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That could describe me more often than I wished… Originally Posted by FrankLearns
Exactly! Originally Posted by Philco
I would have quite a day between you too! I'd be getting a double masterclass! Originally Posted by campusfive
All kidding aside, I think that I will eventually take some lessons with him via Skype as soon as I'll have enough time to really concentrate on it.
I am not technical at all when it comes to electricity and electronic circuits, in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, so I have no idea what is possible or not, how and why… But I can hear and I was just wondering a couple days ago: if guys like CC and O. Moore had had access to the technology available to us today, what sound would they have gone for? Maybe not the one that they more or less created with what was available to them. Still, it is not only an iconic tone, it is one with great qualities despite its low-fi characteristics. Originally Posted by campusfive
What he says about it: "I also have a tube preamp that replicates the Gibson 150 and a 61 Fender Tremolux with several EQ and preamp mods. I work on the preamp with Austin-based amp guru Bill Webb. Both of these amp heads are used with a single 15" speaker, handmade by Tayden in England. The "black box" helps any amp get the tone of a 1930s Gibson Amp." Originally Posted by campusfive
I should contact him about this.
I wonder if the "black box" has to work with the Tremolux head or if it can work on its own.
Me, two! Originally Posted by ruger9
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i suppose that, given your situation and general reticence, (if funds allow) go down to your trusted store (or online equivalent, if you dare) and grab a few "maybes" and have them fight for your love. maybe one or two go back. maybe all of them do. point is, it sometimes takes some trial and error. can't tell you how many dirt boxes i've gone through over the years, but i'm in double digits and i'm still poking around.
and oftentimes today's "nope" is tomorrow's "maybe" and today's "yup" is tomorrow's "nope". just what it is. and hopefully, you end up with a universal solution, unless you're fine with separate rigs for your ss and tube amps.
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+1 Originally Posted by feet
It's funny. After playing all the time through a couple tube amps for a couple years, I started playing almost exclusively through my JazzKat after I got it last summer. We're talking big love. (Just like when I was a kid playing hockey I imagined that I was Jean Béliveau, I pictured myself as Bucky Pizzarelli while playing this amp!
) Anyway, with this discussion going on, and my resulting thoughts about tone and gear starting to resemble a pin ball bouncing in my head, I took the tube amps out yesterday. They are loved again! Especially the 1957 GA-8. So far, that amp sounded best with my 1957 ES-225 with single P-90, and since I don't play that one quite as much as I used to, I hadn't played the Gibsonette in a long time. Since then, I had acquired a McCarty pickup/pickguard unit for the L-7, but I had not tried it with the GA-8. Wow! Excellent match! (I must say that so far, this pickup sounds amazing with any amp I have tried it with, SS or tube -- it even makes the stock Champion 600 sound decent!)
So, I could be perfectly happy, tone-wise, with the tube amps that I have. Except that my back is shot and I am not sure I'd feel like hauling one of them instead of a SS the next time that I go out playing… Back to square one!
I am not sure I believe in universal solutions for anything… Originally Posted by feet
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Okay. This sounded good with a Strat and a LP. Now, I'd love to hear a solid top archie with a floating pup through it. Thanks for the tip! Originally Posted by FrankLearns
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it may interest you to know that prymaxe is running a 20% off sale, if you just want to get a few "maybes" in your hands. their return policy is pretty lenient, so it shouldn't be a problem if there isn't a love connection. as good a way to try several pedal through your own rig as you'll find these days.
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i have owned both the Xotic RC Booster and EP Booster. the RC is definitely the better option for "transparent" boost but also gives you the option to add some grit. however, i have let both of those go for the empress parametric eq pedal. it gives you all of the easy to use controllable options and has an added boost function. very customizable.
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But, it seems to me that the empress para eq cannot give you the "grit" that you mentioned when talking about the Xotic RC. I guess you were referring to the use of the gain knob in the RC.
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in my experience, the empress won't inherently give you "grit", but using the boost function with lower wattage tube amps like the ones i play, Ampeg Jet J20/Vox TB18C1, will overdrive the amp and...voila "grit" i.e., overdrive. for a totally customizable "clean" boost, the empress is the best option.
if however, you are more interested in a "transparent" boost and/or "light overdrive" pedal, then i would go with the RC.
they're both great pedals...
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The Empress ParaEQ is one eq that has interested me from the beginning, but it sems a bit complicated to use properly. Am I wrong?
As for all the pedals suggested so far, I am still sorting through them, checking the builder's websites, reading reviews, trying to find useful videos. I have even contacted a couple builders, got a reply from one, waiting on others. I have discarted some pedals while some others have moved closer to the top of my list. I will postpone buying until I have narrowed down signicantly the options.
My options now include boost pedals, drive pedals, EQs, and preamps. Some effects are bundled together and others are standalone. The preamp is one thing that I will have to learn more about. I was impressed by the Ethos Overdrive pedal and I like the idea that they will release a (cheaper and smaller) 1-channel clean version of it in the summer. I also want to get in touch with Whit Smith and talk about his "black box".
I am also weighting in the possibility of moving some stuff (instruments and amps) to make room and fund the purchase of an amp that will help me getting closer to the tone I look for. In the meantime, I've been A-B'ing my amps to find out which ones I will keep or sell, and why.
I have way more questions now than I had when I started this thread, but your replies and comments have been helpful in:
- Learning about pedals I had never heard of;
- Getting to understand a little better how a chain of effects works;
- Presenting me with different options and perspectives;
- Getting me closer to a resolution.
It has also made me step back, observe and listen to my sound, my technique, my guitars and amps, and how I set them up. Regardless of the outcome, it has been an enrichment.
Thanks!
Please, keep adding your comments and suggestions. I'll weight them in.
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Thanks to all the input, this thread turned out to be a nice, informative "one-stop" shop for booster pedals.
Last edited by AlsoRan; 04-19-2014 at 03:06 PM. Reason: clarification
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Not to thread jack, but based on your description of ideal old-school tone, you might be better off just getting an octal-tube based amp. I know the EH-series is pretty mythical, but also pretty expensive.
You'd be surprised how similar the circuits are the BR series amps that followed the EH. I've got a BR-6 that sounds awesome, and I picked up for $400. There's always a couple BR amps floating around on ebay/gbase/etc.
Also, on my last visit to Denver, I not only got to borrow an amazing EH-185, but I also got to play through to also stellar early 50's Gibsons, a GA-25 and a GA-30. Both had octal tube preamps, and as far as I can tell, you can find one's around the internet for well under $1000. As long as it's not a 12A_7 based preamp, you should be good.
If instability of vintage electronics is more than you can bare at present, the Vintage 47 amps are also really reasonably priced, and are of brand-new quality. The 12" Ric Black style seems like a perfect choice. A stimer-equipped Django playing friend of mine picked one up on my recommendation, and he loves it.
And...back to booster talk. Sorry to derail.
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I don't own the Empress Para Eq, however I read the manual and watched some youtube videos.
It doesn't seem so complicated.
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No derailment here. This thread is about how to get get a certain type of sound. I first thought adding boost and eq to a ss amp, but sound is the core of what I am after. So anything aiming that was is good.
I have thought about Vintage47 amps, but a look at their website is not a great invitation to order something. He makes it clear that he builds amps they way he feels like at the moment: he gets to choose the model, how it is made, and how it looks; they're available when he is, and since they're all different, chances are they don't all sound the same, and they may have any imperfection, but he is not going to do anything about it… At least, that's the way I understood what I read on many pages of his website. I've seen better PR… But his amps do look cool and they have a reasonable price.
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The empress can be complicated if one does not know how what frequencies impact (and how they impact) a guitar's sound. As complicated as any other parametric actually... The boost on the empress is a clean boost, no grit with "jazz amps". Of course it will increase overdrive on an already overdriven low watt tube amp, as any booster will.
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I'm pleased with the Xotic EP booster. I use it as an always on sweetener. If I want grit I have a Wampler Euphoria that does the whole Dumble thing pretty well.
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I read his site a bit differently - it looks to me like everyone tries to get him to build everything custom, and he doesn't want to have to constantly mix and match everything. Also, I've watched his site and business evolve over the years, and a lot of that website isn't really even relevant anymore. It's not a great website, but I don't think there's anything to doubt about the build quality and a lack of support. I think you're reading into his comments about NOS Octal tubes being a bit noisy - because they are. I'm sure somebody who doesn't really understand that probably complained, not understanding that is part and parcel of those circuits. It just sounded like he doesn't want to deal with a rubes who are complaining about the very nature of the thing he's doing. Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
If you order a 12" Black Ric, you'll get it. And for under $800 to boot.
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I find that my Timmy works wonders with my twin reverb, give it a try. The controls on the Timmy work backwards, at 0 treble/bass you get your original sound with a choice of three different clipping options. Then onwards, as you increase treble/bass you are removing treble/bass! Not for everyone, but I love it
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