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I don't know if they would do something like that or not. I get the impression they are pretty traditonal, and used by clone builders, people refurbishing older amps, etc.the mather cabs look great, construction-wise but i'm looking for a closed back cab with 2x8 and those need to be properly ported to sound good and I didn't see anything on his site that looked like a proper port design. Most of the speaker cabs you see for guitars are made by guys who have a dovetail jig and know how to make kitchen-cabinet style cabs which is fine for bigger speakers or for rock or blues but for smaller speakers like 8s or 6s you really need to have a properly designed cab or the bass will be loose, flabby or non existent.
You are obviously looking for a specialized application. I will be interested to see what you come up with! I'm more interested in a trade off in flexibility, but I agree with you on the headroom thing. I just never got into the speaker breakup thing. Kind of like when they demo modeling amps and software, the demos usually consist of clangy, retro crunch chords in 1st position. Not the application I'm looking for, but certainly a part of the history of rock, if that's your thing.
What modern player tones have you heard in the Redstone/Clarus/etc vein that you like? I guess I still lean more towards tube amp players tones, like Kreisberg and Bernstein.
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03-19-2014 05:40 PM
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Wasn't the construction of Raezer's Edge cabinets taken over by Jeff Hale? And wasn't there several posts here a couple weeks ago about his store front closing down rather abruptly?
Originally Posted by jzucker
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I loved the tone I got out of my clarus and RE T8-T cab. It was clean, clear, tight bottom and projected and cut through a band and sounded good for rock and blues too (though obviously not as good as an open back EV cab) Originally Posted by yebdox
I never mentioned redstone as the hallmark of tone because their cabs (at least the ones with 8s) don't sound right to me due to the lack of tightness in the bottom end (no port).
Kreisberg is running a stereo setup with a polytone and a fender so I don't see how you can pinpoint his tone to a particular amp or cab and bernstein's tone is great but not what I'm looking for.
I'm a little hesitant to just buy a new T8-T because JB told me that the post Rich Raezer cabs are not the same as the original cabs.
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yes but raezer's edge was sold to the guy running the cabinet shop but as I mentioned, I emailed him and never heard back. Not sure what the deal is. Can't imagine that particular jazz cabinet business being very lucrative in this economy Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Andy Fuchs. Might even be worth an airplane ride into NJ to visit with him at his facility. He's got a great sound stage set up where you can audition his amps, cabinets and pedals. Originally Posted by jzucker
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I loved the tone I got out of my clarus and RE T8-T cab. It was clean, clear, tight bottom and projected and cut through a band and sounded good for rock and blues too (though obviously not as good as an open back EV cab)
I never mentioned redstone as the hallmark of tone because their cabs (at least the ones with 8s) don't sound right to me due to the lack of tightness in the bottom end (no port).
Kreisberg is running a stereo setup with a polytone and a fender so I don't see how you can pinpoint his tone to a particular amp or cab and bernstein's tone is great but not what I'm looking for.
I'm a little hesitant to just buy a new T8-T because JB told me that the post Rich Raezer cabs are not the same as the original cabs.
Well, this problem is right up your alley! I consider you one of our foremost researchers on the tone frontier! Venture forth and come back with the goods, Jack!
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I actually am in contact with the guy who I sold my T8-T to and he's considering whether to get rid of it or not. So it's possible I'll buy it back. Otherwise, I'd like to find one that I can try first just in case JB was right about them not being the same after Rich passed away. Originally Posted by yebdox
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It's too bad earcandy has so much negative press because the bailey cab looks very interesting.
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For "jazz amps" nothing beats an oversized closed back (non ported) with an EV. Second choice a small ported cab with an EV
Never tried an Altec or a JBL though.
For fender sounds (tube or ss) I like open-back cabs and more guitaristic speakers... I don't think an EV is such a good match for these type of amps.
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Never liked a non ported closed back cab with EV. Horrible midrange IMO. EV doesn't need ports. It's got plenty of bottom end. That's why it sounds great even in an open back cab and in fact, it's the preferred choice of cab for fusion and even funk/rock. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
For "jazz amps" nothing beats an oversized closed back (non ported) with an EV. Second choice a small ported cab with an EV Never tried an Altec or a JBL though.
robben ford and the legion of dumble followers would disagreeFor fender sounds (tube or ss) I like open-back cabs and more guitaristic speakers... I don't think an EV is such a good match for these type of amps.
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Although I prefer non ported EVs still sound great in ported cabs. Originally Posted by jzucker
A lot of people would disagree with me, I am just saying my opinion. First dumbles are much closer to "jazz amps" (flat sound) than a blackface. Cleans are significantly different... Second blues players who use dumbles / ev tend to have a type of sound I would not like for jazz.Last edited by jorgemg1984; 03-19-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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I know you dislike bf amps for jazz but bf amps provide the classic jazz tone IMO. Almost every great jazz tube amp is based on the BF circuit including the heritage jazz amps and the new demeter pedalboard amp. I've owned 7 or 8 dumble clones and the jazz sound is nasally on those. You might enjoy that they're less flabby in the low end . Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
My favorite jazz amp of all time was the gries 35 which is a BF copy. Lots of the jazz guitarists in NY are using BF amps. At one time or another bollenback, johnston, bernstein, kreisberg, rick stone and many others used them but getting back on topic....
My preference with EV is in an open back cab. To me, they are very middy and bass heavy and when you put them in a closed back cab and/or ported cab, they develop too much bottom end. You don't need all that bottom with jazz guitar IMO.
But you and I seem to be diametrically opposed on just about every aspect of tone and playing so I don't want to turn this into a he said she said discussion.
Let's just disagree and move onto other topics.
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I like blackfaces for jazz - if they have an active mid pot and speakers with thigh bass. I just find EVs are not the best match for them.
Traditional jazz tones were achieved with blackfaces AND tweeds AND ampegs (who sound quite different from fenders).
Exactly, dumbles are "nasal" - that's why they sound good with EVs. Scooped blackfaces not as much, although still good.
I hate excessive bass. Did not have it at all with the Drz 1x12 used closed with an EVM-12L and my Mambo head. Did tons of A / B between closed and open - open sounded good too but loosed focus. I had and have EVs in ported cabs and not excessive bass either...
No problem with "agree to disagree". But you always seem surprised when you're not received with reverence.
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I'm real tired of you taking personal shots. Everytime we have a discussion you end up feeling the need to take personal shots. Don't bother replying, you're blocked for good. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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You boys are disturbing my mood… I'm trying to enjoy Lage Lund's new album, which I suspect was recorded on a BF Fender, given his more recent leanings. Great tone and playing. Listen more, argue less. I have learned from both of you, thank you, so agree to disagree and move on to more helpful discussion.
I have tried my EV in my 1x12 cab with the middle back panel on (closed) and off…. sounds much better open, but I liked a Celestion Lead 80 in it with the back closed.
Have fun with it. I personally have never really dug the AI/Raezer thang, but I appreciate that someone likes it. Maybe I need to try it again.
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Here's what works for me . . it's a 1970 Pro Reverb, black faced by Andy Fuchs . . and it's sitting on a Sound Enhancer. The sound from the open back of the Fender cab is reflexed out the bottom opening like a horn. I capture all of the mids and lows normally lost out the back. I also had Josh at Atlas Stands make me something similar for my 1970 Princeton Reverb. Slightly different design, but same reflex concept.
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that's cool patrick. One thing about the open back cabs is that they sound different in every room and particularly if you're not against the wall so that enhancer potentially solves that problem but does it keep heat dissipation from occuring?
My open back cab gries 35 sounded great for jazz. Arguably better than the bigger wattage SS amps I'm currently using but it certainly doesn't have the headroom to do wes style block chords with the thumb when playing at big band volumes.
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the T8-T cab was very different sounding than the rest of the Raezer line. Much tighter and more open sounding. Originally Posted by yebdox
8" speakers rule, i'm tellin ya!
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Ok, I'm game. What about with a tube head? I could never find a sound out of an AI Corus that I thought was attractive to me, though I know some great players who love them. Originally Posted by jzucker
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I think they use Beyma speakers made in Spain...:-) Originally Posted by jzucker
too much hype on that website. Really?!? A luthier designed the speaker?!? Really?!? Or did they just order it from eminence like everyone else?
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I agree--I used a T8-T ER with a Clarus for a number of years as my main gigging amp, and it's still the best cabinet I've ever used for a great jazz sound, although for the most part I use an AI Corus these days for almost everything--just don't feel like dealing with the weight anymore. Originally Posted by jzucker
Shortly after production of RE cabinets started up again after Rich's death I had the opportunity to compare a new ST10-ER to one made by Rich. I found the two different quite a bit--mine was smooth and warm, the new one somewhat edgy, with harsher highs. I was able to keep the new one for more than a month, during which time I ran it with programmed audio whenever we were not at home, to see if it would break-in, but it never improved. Since this is just one data point I won't judge the entire line, but when I posted this some years ago in rmmgj JB agreed with my assessment.
Compared to my AI cabs, the RE's are more open, detailed and dynamic, but point for point, they weigh more and I find much of the difference is lost in a performance space, so instead of a Stealth 10 I use a Corus and instead of the T8-T I use a Ten2 or Ten2 EX. Everything in life is a tradeoff, and this is one that I find worthwhile.
My gigging cabs, all built by Rich:
Not shown is a Stealth 12-ER I use only in the house; the NY8-ER was a one-off that Rich built from me and I believe it is different from the production versions.
Here I am with the T8-T-ER, about ten years ago. Still a great cab, but now used in my house only.
Danny W.
P.S.: Jack, didn't I try to sell you a standard T8-T back then?Last edited by Danny W.; 03-20-2014 at 09:20 AM.
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What Head amp do you use with nylon strings guitar? Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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When? I don't remember. I had one and sold it but I'm hoping to get it back. I also have and love my corus and was considering a ten/2 cab. How does it sound compared to the corus? Originally Posted by Danny W.
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i'm not danny but I imagine he's using his clarus Originally Posted by kris
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As I understand it, port/vents makes a cab less tight in the buttom, which is the very purpose. But to be frank, I have no personal experiences with vented cabs, only closed versus traditional open. Originally Posted by jzucker
Redstone has both vented and non-vented cabs. They recommend the vented cabs for those who wants to dig deeper into the bass area than unvented cabs alllow. I didn't want that since I more often fight low frequency woof in the small roms I play in rather than want more bass, so I opted for the non-vented cab. BTW, as you likely already know, the low cut control on AE amps comes in handy here, but thats another matter.Last edited by oldane; 03-20-2014 at 03:10 AM.
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