Jazz guitar cabs?

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 02:11 PM

Raezer's Edge, Redstone, what else is out there?

**Klatu** · 03-19-2014, 02:13 PM

What qualifies a cab as being particularly adept at jazz? In your opinion, what has more effect on the tone, the cab or the speaker?

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

What qualifies a cab as being particularly adept at jazz? In your opinion, what has more effect on the tone, the cab or the speaker?

what qualifies it as jazz in a couple things in my mind.

1) minimal cone breakup. As much as some of the guys on this forum love the eminence guitar speakers, they break up way too quickly. They are designed to be used in cabs with multiple speakers. Many are copies of british designs which were originally put in 4x12 cabs. For rock, the cone breakup is acceptable but not for jazz IMO.

2) Relatively flat response with a tight bottom end.

Obviously there are many cabs that aren't strictly jazz cabs that have these attributes. And sometimes, it's purely the speaker. For example, a 20"x16"x11 open back cab with an EV12L will sound pretty good for jazz guitar. Put an eminence tonker in it and maybe not so good....

**Bill C** · 03-19-2014, 02:35 PM

Evans? Mambo?

**kris** · 03-19-2014, 02:40 PM

key:
look at the professional guitarsts what they use...
in my opinion Raezer's Edge, Redstone-made in USA.

**Klatu** · 03-19-2014, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

what qualifies it as jazz in a couple things in my mind.

1) minimal cone breakup. As much as some of the guys on this forum love the eminence guitar speakers, they break up way too quickly. They are designed to be used in cabs with multiple speakers. Many are copies of british designs which were originally put in 4x12 cabs. For rock, the cone breakup is acceptable but not for jazz IMO.

2) Relatively flat response with a tight bottom end.

Obviously there are many cabs that aren't strictly jazz cabs that have these attributes. And sometimes, it's purely the speaker. For example, a 20"x16"x11 open back cab with an EV12L will sound pretty good for jazz guitar. Put an eminence tonker in it and maybe not so good....

Thanks for responding so quickly. I seem to recall you really liking the Tonker and Tonker Lite when playing through a Gries amp. What was it that turned you away from said speaker?

**mr. beaumont** · 03-19-2014, 02:53 PM

I can vouch for redstone...love my RS-8. Clean, loud, tiny.

**mitch_33** · 03-19-2014, 03:03 PM

Not sure if these would be constituted as jazz, but Port City Amps.

http://portcityamps.com/products/cabinets/

**Woody Sound** · 03-19-2014, 04:24 PM

I've had the Raezer 12, Raezer 10, and Redstone 10. All three were the ER version - I also play a lot of nylon/latin/classical.

The only one I still have and really like is the Raezer 12. For me, the difference the 12 makes in the low end is not worth the very slight size/weight tradeoff.

**yebdox** · 03-19-2014, 04:27 PM

For example, a 20"x16"x11 open back cab with an EV12L will sound pretty good for jazz guitar. Put an eminence tonker in it and maybe not so good....

Those are close to the dimensions I have, with a reconed EV SRO - love it. sounds great with pedals, as well. I had it built with a 3 panel back, usually leave the middle panel off. Built by the guy who does the cabs for Vintage Sound, can't recall his name, but he's apparently well known in the Nashville area.

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Thanks for responding so quickly. I seem to recall you really liking the Tonker and Tonker Lite when playing through a Gries amp. What was it that turned you away from said speaker?

i don't think i said tonker lite because mine had a regular tonker and I don't think i've ever heard the lite. For rock and blues, the tonker is fabulous but none of the emi speakers that I've heard are great for jazz and particularly playing heavy strings at volume

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by mitch_33

Not sure if these would be constituted as jazz, but Port City Amps.

http://portcityamps.com/products/cabinets/

i've never liked a single thiele design cab I've ever played through.

**oldane** · 03-19-2014, 04:44 PM

I use a Redstone RS-10ER (has an Eminence Beta 10 and an Eminence APT-80 tweeter controlled by an L-pad with crossover at 3.5kHz). I am very pleased with it. When I want a tight, classical 1950s jazz guitar tone, I turn down the Tweeter (not completely off, then everything above 3.5kHz is cut off). When I want a more airy sound, I turn up the Tweeter to the "Normal" setting. Very versatile. As opposed to many others I like the low end tightness and clarity the 10" speaker gives as opposed to a 12" or 15", especially at lower volumes in smaller rooms. They are ruggedly built.

Reazers Edge are also very good cabs. I haven't any personal experience with them, but if one can believe the few comparative tests, the sound is not too far from that of the equivalent Redstone cabs, the Redstone being a tad tighter and more well defined in the buttom (but likely not a difference that can't levelled out with slight tweaks of the EQ).

**jads57** · 03-19-2014, 04:51 PM

Buscarino makes a great sounding cab, but it's very expensive Jack!

http://www.buscarino.com/content/chameleon-speakers

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 04:57 PM

not sure how the redstone can be tighter since it's not ported

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

Buscarino makes a great sounding cab, but it's very expensive Jack!

http://www.buscarino.com/content/chameleon-speakers

too much hype on that website. Really?!? A luthier designed the speaker?!? Really?!? Or did they just order it from eminence like everyone else?

**yebdox** · 03-19-2014, 05:10 PM

http://www.mathercab.com

This is the guy, Jack. Traditional cabs, but high quality. I'm just about ready to give up on most speakers EXCEPT for EVs.

I don't want a cab myself that only does jazz, but I really don't like speaker breakup. I like something that can handle most of what I want to play, with tweaks through the head and pedals. Maybe if I was trying to play exclusively like Eric Johnson or Scott Henderson, I might want to try Greenbacks, but seems like even EJ is moving towards speakers with more headroom… isn't his signature Eminence rated at like 50 or 60 watts? For a while, even Bonamassa had switched to EV's exclusively (I think he still uses them, not sure), and his tones are wonderful to my ears, for what he's trying to do. And, they sound great through an open back cab.

In my limited opinion.

**Patrick2** · 03-19-2014, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

too much hype on that website. Really?!? A luthier designed the speaker?!? Really?!? Or did they just order it from eminence like everyone else?

Exactly!! Too much marketing hype. A speaker designed by a luthier? What's next . . a guitar designed by a speaker manufacturer?? lolol

You're in the enviable position of having experienced exactly what you like and exactly what you don't. You know exactly what you want and need. Why not just call Andy and tell him what you want out of a cabinet . . and what you're going to be powering it with and have him build you something to meet your requirements? As you know, with Andy . . if what you get is not exactly what you expected . . . you can send it back and he'll tweak it to your preference. That would be a lot easier than to buy something . . not like it . . sell it and try again . . then repeat the process over and over until you hit pay dirt.

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 05:22 PM

andy?

**Klatu** · 03-19-2014, 05:24 PM

Which speaker models do you like from affordable companies such as Celestion, Eminence, Warehouse, or Jenson?

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by yebdox

http://www.mathercab.com

This is the guy, Jack. Traditional cabs, but high quality. I'm just about ready to give up on most speakers EXCEPT for EVs.

I don't want a cab myself that only does jazz, but I really don't like speaker breakup. I like something that can handle most of what I want to play, with tweaks through the head and pedals. Maybe if I was trying to play exclusively like Eric Johnson or Scott Henderson, I might want to try Greenbacks, but seems like even EJ is moving towards speakers with more headroom… isn't his signature Eminence rated at like 50 or 60 watts? For a while, even Bonamassa had switched to EV's exclusively (I think he still uses them, not sure), and his tones are wonderful to my ears, for what he's trying to do. And, they sound great through an open back cab.

In my limited opinion.

the mather cabs look great, construction-wise but i'm looking for a closed back cab with 2x8 and those need to be properly ported to sound good and I didn't see anything on his site that looked like a proper port design. Most of the speaker cabs you see for guitars are made by guys who have a dovetail jig and know how to make kitchen-cabinet style cabs which is fine for bigger speakers or for rock or blues but for smaller speakers like 8s or 6s you really need to have a properly designed cab or the bass will be loose, flabby or non existent.

The only guys I see doing that are raezers-edge and earcandy but earcandy's reviews have scared me off.

**mad dog** · 03-19-2014, 05:28 PM

Best cabs I've heard so far are by Forte and Jenkins (now long out of business). Not for jazz per se, just in general. Would like to try J Designs and Mather.
MD

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-19-2014, 05:31 PM

Maybe this is a good place to ask a naive question: closed versus open-backed (ported as well). What's your preference and why?

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Which speaker models do you like from affordable companies such as Celestion, Eminence, Warehouse, or Jenson?

i like the et65 and in theory the ET90 which should be a higher powered ET65 but I haven't heard it. Even the ET65 experiences some cone breakup. I like the cast frame and emi delta and some of the alpha and beta speakers that extend up to 4.5k at 100db. Some cab makers like evans are using eminence woofers that rapidly fall off at 3k and i've tried a couple of those evans cabs and for my tastes, they could not cut through a band mix on a gig. They are muddy to my ears.

Haven't tried anything by celestion or jensen that I liked for jazz. The tonker and RW&B emi sounds good for jazz at lower power settings but you start to get cone breakup at louder volumes. With a 35 watt tube amp it's not a problem because the amp starts breaking up but with a loud SS amp, I don't care for the sound quality when the cone starts distorting

**jzucker** · 03-19-2014, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Maybe this is a good place to ask a naive question: closed versus open-backed (ported as well). What's your preference and why?

both but for smaller speakers like 8s, closed and ported. I generally like open back cabs better but they have issues in big rooms and when you're not against a wall. They sound different in every room. The drawback with RE and other closed cabs is that they don't sound as good when you're right next to them.

I've been talking to j-design but after a few conversations, it's clear he's just guessing about cabinet size and how big and where to port it. Clearly, only a couple guitar cab manfacturers have spent much time making a cab for jazz guitar. The thing that Rich Raezer did was mathematically designed the proper size cab with the proper ports and then he experimented and tuned the ports by hand using an archtop and a clarus amp until he was happy. This made his products very unique.

He was a great guy too. He will be missed. Incidentally, I emailed Raezer's edge 4 days ago and never heard back from them...