Speaker Frequency Responses

[Tom Karol]

Franz 1997 pointed out this place in an older thread:
http://www.jamminjersey.com/speakers.php?prod=celestion
Interesting selection of used speakers (not just Celestion).

[GuyBoden]

For Europeans, I've not tried them, but these look interesting:

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...simple&pid=333

[jzucker]

For Europeans, I've not tried them, but these look interesting:

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...simple&pid=333

ouch, i'll pass at this price.

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/prod...SOUND12NDA520/

[DRS]

Thanks for the suggestions

Unless I can find a used EV12L or Force, I may go new Cannabis Rex.
What about a JBL K120? It seems most guys feel that D120s are all either recones or worn out.
Or a used Emi Commonwealth?

[jzucker]

wow, the cannibas rex seems to be such a different speaker in almost every way from a 12L or Force 12. What made you decide on that. Put a want-ad up on the gear page. You'll find a used one pretty quickly.

Or this emi:

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...el=Legend_EM12

[Franz 1997]

wow, the cannibas rex seems to be such a different speaker in almost every way from a 12L or Force 12.

I completely agree. The cannabis rex is anything but clean and clear to my ears; more dark and coloured. But fine, if that's really what you're looking for. It is very loud, which might be why some people like them in lower-powered amps.

[DRS]

I was basing the C Rex on the frequency graph. It seemed flat like a EV12 but I don't really know as I've never used either.

[Franz 1997]

I was basing the C Rex on the frequency graph. It seemed flat like a EV12 but I don't really know as I've never used either.

it's difficult to decide unless you can hear the speaker in action, or hear speakers in an amp that you like and then identify the make. Even then, they can sound different in different amps. Reading graphs is tricky - it's useful for looking at treble or bass response, for example, but gets difficult after that. One reason could be that most speaker graphs go up and down quite a lot, often over 3 or 5 db, and this is important because a 3db change in response at a critical point ( e.g. 400 hz or 800 hz - just examples) can really affect the perceived response and sound. It might not look much on the graph, but more than 3db variance is a lot- so it helps to note where the points of greatest variance are IMO.

My guess is that many members here had learnt about what speakers they like the hard way i.e. buying & trying. It's an expensive learning process.

Generally speaking, the flatter the graph, the more neutral a speaker will sound, all other things being equal. Evs, JBLs, Altecs, Gauss speakers all come from the golden age of speaker making ( that might be controversial..) when they were all trying for a flat response and high power handling.

A lot of jazz amps use eminence beta speakers, and are thought of as neutral-sounding and dark. But if you look at the graph of the beta 10, a very widely used speaker, you'll see a big midrange dip at around 1k, from memory. It's hardly a 'flat' sounding speaker at all. A really neutral sounding speaker such as an EV sounds very different - but is much more expensive.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

A lot of jazz amps use eminence beta speakers, and are thought of as neutral-sounding and dark. But if you look at the graph of the beta 10, a very widely used speaker, you'll see a big midrange dip at around 1k, from memory. It's hardly a 'flat' sounding speaker at all. A really neutral sounding speaker such as an EV sounds very different - but is much more expensive.

Beta 10-A: dip at 700Hz peak at 3k. Would you say the Delta 10-A would be more neutral-sounding? (It still has a peak, a bit below 3k, but is fairly flat below that. And is there a relationship between neutral-sounding and dark? The terms sound like they shouldn't be used with "and" between them!

[Franz 1997]

Beta 10-A: dip at 700Hz peak at 3k. Would you say the Delta 10-A would be more neutral-sounding? (It still has a peak, a bit below 3k, but is fairly flat below that. And is there a relationship between neutral-sounding and dark? The terms sound like they shouldn't be used with "and" between them!

looking at the graphs, yes; and again from the graph, both have limitations as guitar speakers because of high frequency roll=off around 4k. Despite that, the beta gets used a lot in jazz amps

With a flat, EV-like speaker, I don't find the tone dark at all, just ''neutral', neither trebly or bassy.

have a feeling someone, maybe JZ, has commented above specifically on the delta 10. Can't scroll up, I'm typing...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

looking at the graphs, yes; and again from the graph, both have limitations as guitar speakers because of high frequency roll=off around 4k. Despite that, the beta gets used a lot in jazz amps

With a flat, EV-like speaker, I don't find the tone dark at all, just ''neutral', neither trebly or bassy.

have a feeling someone, maybe JZ, has commented above specifically on the delta 10. Can't scroll up, I'm typing...

He said he liked the Delta 12A for cleans, even though it's got a high mid peak.

I think I asked this before: for a classic, clean jazz tone, is 4K too low for the high frequency roll-off? What should it be?

[Franz 1997]

ideally 5k, altho can still use other speakers if one can boost though amp around 4/5 k. Sadly most amp tone controls won't allow that, tho a graphic eq will.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

ideally 5k, altho can still use other speakers if one can boost though amp around 4/5 k. Sadly most amp tone controls won't allow that, tho a graphic eq will.

I went to http://onlinetonegenerator.com/ -- neither 4k nor 5k sound that high! But I guess we want those overtones attenuated for a warmer sound.