Why are acoustic qualities important when using a guitar amp?

[fep]

Frank, I've recorded over 400 different guitars in the last 12 years and I don't think I could begin to rank what most influences the sound. I do know that recording archtops and planks through the exact same rig produced very different results and when recording different archtops, their acoustic properties are pretty obvious. I posted this a while ago but here's a clip I assembled with short recordings from four different archtops, all with different constructions. The guitars are all identified but even if they weren't I don't think you'd have much difficulty picking them out.

The Es-175 didn't have the 'sparkle' that the others had. I like the Sweet 16 and the Brownie the best, those two sounded very similar to me.

I'm assuming they all had different pickups. The amount of sparkle from least to most to my ear, ES-175, Eastman 503, and a tie between Sweet 16 and the Brownie for the most sparkle. Interesting that lines up exactly with the neck lengths (for what that's worth, given that there are a lot of other variables).

[feet]

given how idiosyncratic it already is, even before i started messing with it, its hard to say how much of the byrdland's "otherness" is a result of its construction and how much is because of its "acousticness", if you like. but it is my most "acoustic" electric so that's my point of reference.

compared to other maple topped semis and plain old solids and semis, it has, obviously, a much louder unplugged tone, able to overpower the tv if i'm on the couch. but it also has a beguiling high end, is more responsive to picking hand placement relative to the bridge and strangely, its easier to pull off "acoustic" tricks like side to side vibrato and harpy harmonics and such.

you can also hear a spruciness when you play with your fingers, especially in the note decay. maybe that's the secret here, the spruce top. or that ebony fretboard... and don't get me started on how it responds to effects, volume and distortion.

long story short, yes, it exists and it matters. and its awesome.

[Jim Soloway]

As always, very nice Jim, but how close are the recording to the Guitar's actual acoustic tone, I find that I get a better acoustic sound using a condenser microphone.

I'm sure your right about the superior representation of a good mic. This is very much a rig of convenience rather than accuracy but in a way I think it makes it even more impressive how clearly it shows the sonic differences between these guitars despite the limitations of the rig. The Eastman is a solid top over laminate sides, the 175 is all laminate, the Sweet 16 is all solid woods and the Parker with its unique construction is very much an acoustic instrument. In the recordings, while they may not be perfectly accurate, to my ears the Sweet 16 and the Parker clearly sound much more like acoustic instruments while the 175 has the least acoustic content of the bunch with the Eastman in the middle ... just as one would expect.

[fritz jones]

I find archtops easier to play than solid or semis. They play well with heavier strings, while I struggle with a .11's on a small guitar sometimes.
The sound of the fatter strings and hollowness is makes for a better sound in my opinion.

[GuyBoden]

Here's a great Archtop video that shows the difference between the pickup and acoustic sounds.

The first part is recorded using only a mic, starts at 0:10.

The second part is recorded using only a pickup, starts at 2:15.

Enjoy
Guy

[Jazz_175]

I'd like to emphasize what GuyBoden's saying.
It might be that, most of the times, we believe the acoustic properties reflect into the amplified signal, but that's just
because at the same time we listen directly to the guitar and perceive its acoustic tone.
This is not to say that the acoustic properties do not influence the electric signal, but, if we record direct, they are less and less evident when we increase the volume because the pickup rules.

Paradoxically when we play at home or on stage it's the acoustic properties of the guitar that ruin the electric sound at high volume because great resonance means sustained frequencies and consequently more feedback.

(...I guess...)

[jorgemg1984]

Guy you're saying different things. Of course a mic or a piezo will give you much more of the acoustic nature of the guitar than a magnetic. That doesn't mean if you only use the magnetic your archtop will sound like a solid body...

Just record a clip with a solid body getting that Bernstein sound and you'll prove your point.

[GuyBoden]

Just record a clip with a solid body getting that Bernstein sound and you'll prove your point.

I've never said a solid body guitar sounds like an Archtop, I have 6 carved top Archtops and many solid body guitars, so I know they don't sound the same.

My point is that the acoustic properties of the guitar are best amplified by a condenser microphone not a pickup.

Please read my posts again.

The problem is that when playing a guitar, you are so close to the guitar, you hearing it's acoustic sound.

Try this experiment, record an Archtop and then a Solid body guitar direct, no microphone, then listen to the results. It's not really an acoustic sound I'm hearing, it's mostly the sound of the guitar's pickup, if I want to amplify the Archtop's acoustic sound, I'll use a condenser microphone, similar to what's used for amplifying acoustic guitars.

I've recorded my archtops direct with no mic, I'm surprized by the results, the acoustic properties are less than you'd think, it's more the pickup sound, I think recording using a good condenser mic is much better.

I own many archtops, including a Guild Benedetto and a 1949 Gibson L4C to name a few, they sound great acoustically.

As always, very nice Jim, but how close are the recording to the Guitar's actual acoustic tone, I find that I get a better acoustic sound using a condenser microphone.

Here's a great Archtop video that shows the difference between the pickup and acoustic sounds.

The first part is recorded using only a mic, starts at 0:10.

The second part is recorded using only a pickup, starts at 2:15.

Enjoy
Guy

[jorgemg1984]

At band levels I may agree with you. At more quiet settings you can a lot of acoustic vibe of an archtop, although not exactly faithful.

[Klatu]

Here's a great Archtop video that shows the difference between the pickup and acoustic sounds.

The first part is recorded using only a mic, starts at 0:10.

The second part is recorded using only a pickup, starts at 2:15.

Enjoy
Guy

Terrific video. The player is talented and the tone is wonderful. I think between the acoustic and amplified tones, I'd choose the acoustic. Which would you prefer.

In my opinion, the best solution is the one described in the following video which blends acoustic and amplified tones into one recording.

[2bornot2bop]

2 words - Acoustic blend

Due to different volume requirements, a home blend is easier to achieve than a gig setting.

blend to your own taste. Jazz amps, imo, when tastefully setup, won't approach the loud glaring volume of a rock amp...this is jazz...think less is more.