Eastman AR810CE, loose endpin jack

[VanDan]

Hello,

I'm a newbie, both to this forum and to jazz guitar, and I recently purchased an Eastman AR810 that has a loose output jack (the endpin type). Does anyone have any experience with this problem? I tried looking inside and it appears that the jack shaft doesn't have threads and that it uses some kind of press fit to retain inside the hole. I'm pretty handy with electric guitars but haven't encountered this type of jack and I don't want to do anything stupid with such a beautiful instrument. I sent an email, a few days ago, to the Eastman company, but am still awaiting any kind of reply.

Btw, I absolutely love the tone and feel of this instrument. The guitar is immaculate other than this minor problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan

[fritz jones]

you could replace it with a switchcraft endpin jack.

[BigMikeinNJ]

Yes, I am with FritzJones, take it to a good tech and have a Switchcraft installed, while you're at it have them gut all the wiring and replace it. I love my real early 810 Prototype, but the smartest thing I did was buy an OLD Benedetto (made by Kent Armstrong) floater and have my techs install it and replace all the wiring. Eastman was great at making gorgeous carved top guitars but a little behind the times in what they used for electronics. They are starting to catch up now. It makes one heck of a difference, trust me.

Thinking about it, if you bought the guitar new from a authorized dealer then you are entitled to warranty repair. It would not hurt to contact Eastman and see, they probably can locate a shop near you that will do the work for you and bill them. That's what the whole warranty thing is about. If you bought it online used then using a good local tech is the route to go. They ARE such lovely jazz boxes.

[Ronstuff]

I have the same problem. I changed my pickup and since then I have to tighten the endpin every time I plug or un-plug...

[VanDan]

Thanks Mike, I did buy it used online, but I did some research prior to purchasing it and did know that Eastman had some "growing pains" and that some of their earlier efforts had flaws, but this one is dated April 2013, and I do actually love the sound of the pickup and the wiring seems solid to me, so I may just take it to a local tech, but I really don't see how it can be that difficult to repair and, like I stated, I'm pretty handy with guitars, so I may look at the Switchcraft jack and see what I can do with it myself. Thanks for the suggestions.

That's really a lovely guitar in your picture, is that an Eastman 910? I know they use more premium grade woods over the 810 series.

[VanDan]

Ronstuff, that seems like a real drag to have to do. What type of replacement system did you use, and do you think the tech did a lousy job then?

[VanDan]

you could replace it with a switchcraft endpin jack.

Hi Fritz Jones,

Could you provide me with a particular type of Switchcraft endpin jack? There seem to be a few varieties available.

Thanks,
Dan

[BigMikeinNJ]

As I stated it was a VERY early Eastman, probably one of the prototypes/artist endorsement models they made and took to their first NAMM show. Killer woods, the Benedetto headstock shape, Jinko Grover Stairstep copy tuners, a cheap curly que pot metal tailpiece. Long before the AR910 even existed. I found a couple more over the years on eBay with the exact same specs. I got in touch with a number of these sellers and developed a dialog with them, even becoming Facebook friends with a couple of them. It's a drop dead great guitar, I was determined to get a couple more of the blonde ones, they listed and relisted a couple times always starting around $1000.00 and price eventually dropped a couple hundred more. But no one wanted them because there was no label or recognized name on the headstock, Eastman was just in their infancy, but other guitars always took precedence over another Eastman 810 prototype. The previous owner had changed the tailpiece to a real Benedetto tailpiece with the nylon cord. I think Eastman then changed to the current headstock shape and went thru a couple of tailpiece designs.

There used to be a Yahoo Groups Eastman forum, I read each and every post, over 1800 of them so saw a owner written history of issues that Eastman resolved. They really were determined to right all the flaws. I still think having a tech gut and rewire it is the smart move. Parts and labor will be maybe a total of $50.00, how can you go wrong ?? The difference will blow you away.

[VanDan]

As I stated it was a VERY early Eastman, probably one of the prototypes/artist endorsement models they made and took to their first NAMM show. Killer woods, the Benedetto headstock shape, Jinko Grover Stairstep copy tuners, a cheap curly que pot metal tailpiece. Long before the AR910 even existed. I found a couple more over the years on eBay with the exact same specs. I got in touch with a number of these sellers and developed a dialog with them, even becoming Facebook friends with a couple of them. It's a drop dead great guitar, I was determined to get a couple more of the blonde ones, they listed and relisted a couple times always starting around $1000.00 and price eventually dropped a couple hundred more. But no one wanted them because there was no label or recognized name on the headstock, Eastman was just in their infancy, but other guitars always took precedence over another Eastman 810 prototype. The previous owner had changed the tailpiece to a real Benedetto tailpiece with the nylon cord. I think Eastman then changed to the current headstock shape and went thru a couple of tailpiece designs.

There used to be a Yahoo Groups Eastman forum, I read each and every post, over 1800 of them so saw a owner written history of issues that Eastman resolved. They really were determined to right all the flaws. I still think having a tech gut and rewire it is the smart move. Parts and labor will be maybe a total of $50.00, how can you go wrong ?? The difference will blow you away.

Hey Mike, I appreciate all the info, especially regarding Eastman's reconciliation of their earlier flaws. I will consult with a local tech here in Vancouver (Canada), an older Japanese fellow, who is a master luthier and repairman, and get a quote from him. He specializes in acoustic and archtop work, so I'm confident he'll do a great job. I see you mention that old Benedetto Kent Armstrong pickup you had installed in your Eastman, can you recommend an upgrade pickup for me to go with?


Thanks,
Dan

[Ronstuff]

Ronstuff, that seems like a real drag to have to do. What type of replacement system did you use, and do you think the tech did a lousy job then?

I did it myself so maybe that's the problem!
Maybe the endpin jack is crooked inside the guitar, be seems ok.
I'll have to get a luthier to check it out.

[BigMikeinNJ]

Look for an older Benedetto pickup made by Kent here in the States. The one I got with my guitar was my 3rd, they're solid pickups. No worries about pole piece alignments either. Soild smooth warm tone, especially on an 810.

[fritz jones]

is the tailpiece the metal hinge type or the tailgut kind?
the threads on endpin jacks sometimes get messed up, so you might have to get a new one from stew mac or some such place.
if you have the metal hinge tailpiece, i think any jack would work that is long enough.

[VanDan]

is the tailpiece the metal hinge type or the tailgut kind?
the threads on endpin jacks sometimes get messed up, so you might have to get a new one from stew mac or some such place.
if you have the metal hinge tailpiece, i think any jack would work that is long enough.

It has the metal hinge tailpiece and it's the type of jack that threads directly into the endblock and it appears to have loosened up with no solid bite in the wood left, so the only solution that I can see, is to use the type that tightens from the inside with a star washer, but geez, how does one get inside to do that? I think the tech route is the way for me regarding this one.

[fritz jones]

this is the type I have used. http://jjb-electronics.com/sitebuild...in-640x240.png

I used something to "fish" it through the guitar and the endpin hole. a broken guitar string or a patch cord with the cover removed can be used to pull it.
if the washers are in the right place it holds snug and tightens from the outside.

[VanDan]

this is the type I have used. http://jjb-electronics.com/sitebuild...in-640x240.png

I used something to "fish" it through the guitar and the endpin hole. a broken guitar string or a patch cord with the cover removed can be used to pull it.
if the washers are in the right place it holds snug and tightens from the outside.

Fritz,

This is definitely the answer. At first glance I thought to myself, "how do you tighten up the inside shell?", but then realized you get the washer roughly where you want it and then pull it back out, tighten up the inside "back" shell against the inside washer and then pull it through again and tighten the whole thing snug from the outside. This will definitely work, thanks so much.

[VanDan]

Look for an older Benedetto pickup made by Kent here in the States. The one I got with my guitar was my 3rd, they're solid pickups. No worries about pole piece alignments either. Soild smooth warm tone, especially on an 810.

Mike, do you have any experience with the Benedetto "S" series pickups? I know they're made by Seymour Duncan, and I've read some good things about them and also see that Eastman puts them stock on their 910 model guitars.

I'm thinking of trying one of them or the 12 pole USA handwound Kent Armstrongs, what do you think?

Dan

[PTChristopher2]

Dan,

An unsolicited opinion:

The S-6 sounds great with one really unfortunate artifact.

The pole blades are very deeply scooped under the B string to the point that it is rather measurably unbalanced.

With steel or nickel wound strings, the B will sound notably weak.

I suppose with bronze wound strings, the high E would just sound a bit strong. So if one considered the S-6 optimized for bronze-wound strings it would rather make some sense.

Note however, that people fork over Mazda Miyata (or even Kia Optima) type money for fine guitars with S-6 pickups and are very happy. You would have to ask them about their views on the string balance.

EDIT: Removed all references to guitar-owning dentists.

****************************
EDIT: Actually, if you get the S-6 pretty far away from the strings, the effect of the weaker B is far less noticeable. But many guitars do not have the room to really get the PU far enough to mitigate what is in my opinion a noticeable issue.
*****************************

Amongst floaters, I think the KA 12-pole PAF sounds like God's plan for floating PU's. No crackly high end, no emaciated mids, just unflustered response from coast to coast on the FB. I do wish the mounting tab on the KA-12 (or whatever they actually call it) was a bit wider. But with careful cleaning, surface roughing, and Gorilla (brand) CA (it has a slightly flexible final set) it actually stays on just fine.

Note that mounting a floater on the PG is not all that easy and that some very careful wood work can be required.

On the S-6 you may need to accommodate a slope to the mounting surface as well. Quite tricky for a non-luthiator.

All in my opinion.

GFS sells the original type of endpin jack that you likely have. They are a little involved in that you need to screw the thing into the body while having the wire not get all twisted up. So the Switchcraft (or the knockoff avaiable) will surely be easier. Oddly enough the bad one makes a better endpin strap button. The Switchcraft type barely holds the strap, although I have never seen a guitar hurtle earthward when using it.

Chris

[VanDan]

Dan,

An unsolicited opinion:

The S-6 sounds great with one really unfortunate artifact.

The pole blades are very deeply scooped under the B string to the point that it is rather measurably unbalanced.

With steel or nickel wound strings, the B will sound notably weak.

I suppose with bronze wound strings, the high E would just sound a bit strong. So if one considered the S-6 optimized for bronze-wound strings it would rather make some sense.

Note however, that people fork over Mazda Miyata (or even Kia Optima) type money for fine guitars with S-6 pickups and are very happy. I have my opinion as to why, but it is not very interesting, and it makes dentists PM me and say I fail to appreciate their profession.

****************************
EDIT: Actually, if you get the S-6 pretty far away from the strings, the effect of the weaker B is far less noticeable. But many guitars do not have the room to really get the PU far enough to mitigate what is in my opinion a noticeable issue.

Also, I am sure that there are many non-Dentist, very active players who are very happy with the S-6 and its sound and string balance.
*****************************

Amongst floaters, I think the KA 12-pole PAF sounds like God's plan for floating PU's. No crackly high end, no emaciated mids, just unflustered response from coast to coast on the FB. I do wish the mounting tab on the KA-12 (or whatever they actually call it) was a bit wider. But with careful cleaning, surface roughing, and Gorilla (brand) CA (it has a slightly flexible final set) it actually stays on just fine.

Note that mounting a floater on the PG is not all that easy and that some very careful wood work can be required.

On the S-6 you may need to accommodate a slope to the mounting surface as well. Quite tricky for a non-luthiator.

All in my opinion.

GFS sells the original type of endpin jack that you likely have. They are a little involved in that you need to screw the thing into the body while having the wire not get all twisted up. So the Switchcraft (or the knockoff avaiable) will surely be easier. Oddly enough the bad one makes a better endpin strap button. The Switchcraft type barely holds the strap, although I have never seen a guitar hurtle earthward when using it.

Chris

Thanks for chiming in Chris, I welcome any, and all opinions. That's good to know about the S-6, and I'm leaning more towards the KA-12 anyway, as I really like the idea of the adjustable poles.

Your theory, that hits a nerve with the dental community, intrigues me (I make no apologies for my bad pun).

As far as mounting the pickup, I'm very patient and methodical when I go about working on any guitar, so I'm confident that I can manage it with due care and attention. I do appreciate the heads up about possible mounting issues with the PG.

Thanks,
Dan

[macbrist]

Hey Dan,
Were you successful with the switch of the endpin jack and did you continue with the replacement of the balance of the electronics ? I had the same problem a couple months ago. It was a couple of hours before my first gig and I looked dumbfounded with the jack in my hand as I was putting my Eastman 805 in its case. Anyway, I see Bigmike has suggested replacing all the electronics and I am inclined to agree. The vol/tone pots really suck. But, what kind of pickup......Benedetto or back to Kent Armstrong (which is what is on the Eastman now! ). Albeit, not a handwound job. I'm thinking that it may not be easy to get ones hand on an old Benedetto pickup, and do have reservations about going through a trial and error process at a few hundred dollars a pop to find the right pickup. Anyone have thoughts on this, and in particular, recommendations for the rewiring of a solid top Eastman

[PTChristopher2]

Mac,

Any comments on the S6 pickup refer only to the current Duncan-Built S6 floater.

Chris

[macbrist]

Thanks Chris
Sounds like one strike against the S6. Before I do anything I will explore the spec sheets on both the KA and the S6 to see how compatible each is to Eastman 805. I considered getting a stand-by pickguard just in case! I will definitely be saying goodbye to the original endpin style and looking to switchcraft.
Without being critical of the sound quality of the S6, your note places the sound quality of the KA 12 in high regard. Did you replace an Eastman factory pu with the KA handwound job and can you report on the difference. What about the vol/tone controls? Did you replace them?
Bob

[VanDan]

Thanks Chris
Sounds like one strike against the S6. Before I do anything I will explore the spec sheets on both the KA and the S6 to see how compatible each is to Eastman 805. I considered getting a stand-by pickguard just in case! I will definitely be saying goodbye to the original endpin style and looking to switchcraft.
Without being critical of the sound quality of the S6, your note places the sound quality of the KA 12 in high regard. Did you replace an Eastman factory pu with the KA handwound job and can you report on the difference. What about the vol/tone controls? Did you replace them?
Bob

Hi Mac,

I myself went ahead and ordered the handwound KA-12 pickup, as I did extensive research on the net and it really came out head and shoulders above the pack, as well as a new Switchcraft endpin jack (that tightens from the outside). I too am curious about the pots used for tone & volume and why they would require replacing, and if so, with what type?

As for the sizing specs of the 2 pickups, I also looked into that and from the info I found, it appears that both the Duncan/Benedetto S6 and the KA-12 (model# KAHW-HJGS12) are both direct replacements that will fit in your pick guard without any alterations required. The one thing I couldn't seem to find out, is if the KA-12 has coil tapping capabilities or not. I was mulling over the idea of putting a small switch under the pickguard to have the ability to go to single coil mode, just for the hell of it . Does anyone know anything about that?

Dan

[fritz jones]

I don't think it can be tapped.
Just so you know, the epoxy resin cast can't be opened so be careful not to break the mounting tab. The lead wire is set in the epoxy, so if it breaks, the pickup is ruined.
(I wrecked one unfortunately)

[PTChristopher2]

EDIT: Removed most apparent criticism of TGP or any local TGP vibe.
****************

If I may offer a view here:

The KA - 12 pole floating PAF (RESIN CAST SIDE MOUNT, KAHW-SVINB12-RES) is not the same size as the S6. The KA is slightly narrower from E to E and sightly longer from nut to bridge.

This is all workable, but not a drop-in change.

Dan refers to KAHW-HJGS12, which is not the same thing. It may sound great, but I have never seen or tried it.

Also: Mounting a PG tab is not as simple as it may seem. It takes some doing to get the height and angles right. I use a small Dremel router setup.

As for your current Eastman KA PU, please take a ruler or calipers and measure all three dimensions. I can then comment (if it helps) on your current PU vs. and older Eastman floater, and S6 and a KA -12 pole PAF floater.

As for the glowing reviews of the KA:

This is in my opinion, very much based on its similarity indeed to a PAF sound. It has none of the cackle that some players find less than ideal in many floating PUs.

It is still clear and non-muddy in my view.

The S6 sounds quite good to me. It is a bit brighter than the KA - 12, but only a bit. If, in its current form, it did not have the low B amplitude I would have stayed with it.

As for pots and electronics, I find no particular practical fault with the Eastman components. Other may feel otherwise for what may or may not be operational reasons.

It can be that the log taper on a "thumbwheel" pot may be reversed. In this case I just use the pot backwards. This lacks righteous indignation, so may not work in some cases.

My favorite are the Schatten pots from Stewmac. The name alone suggest discipline, and they really work well in fact.

If you do not need the absolute max edge of ice in the treble, then go with a pair of 250K for the KA-12 or the S6. It provides a super-smooth taper, which helps with the slightly awkward under-PG config.

All in my opinion. Others may differ.

Chris

[PTChristopher2]

Just to clarify:

I have never used a KAHW-HJGS12.

I have only used the KAHW-SVINB12-RES.

They may be all but identical, but do note that they are not the same thing.

Chris