Purchase Tips for a Gibson ES-175 1959 Reissue

[Encinitastubes]

Well I've been patiently cultivating my guitar fund over the past few years while shopping/researching brands/types of guitars. I've settled on getting a two-pickup ES-175 1959 RI and am finally in a position to make a purchase.

My first choice would be a blonde, although I like the sunburst well enough. Last month, I drove up to L.A and played a couple new ones, a blonde and a sunburst. They were both great, but the sunburst was just better - better note separation, but better blend as well. It just felt and sounded right. The new ones, though, are about $1000 more than mint used ones available on-line. To me, new or used they are both expensive purchases.

so, my question is would you pay that much more for a guitar that you played and was a proven winner, even if the color was a slight compromise. Or, would you simply buy used, sight unseen, and hope for the best, but still expecting a great guitar. Thanks.

[feet]

wood. that's all that matters. if the wood is good, everything else can be changed, altered or salvaged. not everyone has the patience or stomach for it, but that's how i see it.

i'm also really big on mechanical connections- the bridge, specifically, but i suppose the nut matters, too.

my best advice, in this and all things: get what you want. you're spending a lot. don't waste it. get what you want, now and always. but can what you want be had used, for less? or could it be unearthed from a dud with a little wrenching? ...possibly.

between you and i, wildwood guitars has three in stock, two with video demos, one with a single pup. and if you go through their videos, they've demoed several more. may give you an idea as to how much they vary from one to the next.

[Jabberwocky]

I suspect the OP already knows what the answer is going to be. Buy the one that sounds and plays better to you.

[Pukka-J]

Spending $1000 more hurts only the moment you spend it...spending any money, and especially this amount of money, on a guitar while you really wanted another one hurts a hell off a lot longer!
Especially because you've been saving for so long to come to this moment!

Go for the guitar that feels, plays and sounds better. There's no other way man! You've played them and compared them and now you just won't be happy with the 'lesser' guitar anymore!

Good luck and have fun! These are great instruments indeed!

[rpguitar]

For me, it boils down to what will happen when you get it home, after a while. Will you bond with it and love it unconditionally, OR will you always wish it were a blonde?

[Engine Swap]

I was just wrestling with this same question. For the guitar I got the difference was $200-300 between new and used. I went with new since I was able to play the guitar before buying. If buying used, I was worried about getting a dog, especially with a guitar that's only a year or two old. Definitely play before you buy and be patient until the right one comes along.

[jorgemg1984]

The only piece of gear I can't buy without playing first is a guitar... all the rest (amps, pedals, etc..) I have bought without trying. But not a guitar.. Now this is specially true with a 175, given the disparity on their quality. If you liked that one so much, you'll get used to the color. If not just have it re-painted. Color is easy to change, feel is not.

[Chazmo]

It's always better to play a guitar before you buy it. On the the other hand, the way it sounds at the store, through their amp, can be very different than the experience you have at home with your amp. If you buy from a reputable internet dealer, they will offer a very reasonable return policy, usually 30-45 days. Plenty of time to see if you can bond with the guitar. Even if you have to pay for return shipping, it's better than getting stuck with a dog.

I played two 1959 VOS ES-175s, but not back to back, so I cannot give an accurate comparison of the two with all the minute details. I can say they were both great playing, great sounding, well-built guitars. I took a blond one-pickup model home with me last month. I think Gibson is putting a lot more care into these than the regular 175s. I did play a regular 175 back to back both times I played the '59 VOSs and the VOS is worth the extra cash. IMHO, of course.

[Woody Sound]

Oh it's saaad to belong to someone else, when the right one comes aloooong....

[Patrick2]

I see this whole matter a bit differently than what I've read in all of the replys so far. I'd really have to question just how much the guitar the OP played . . . the sunburst which he said sounded better . . . just how much did that guitar really speak to him? It just doesn't seem to have sparked that . . "this is THE guitar I've been after" . . kind of response. If it did . . he'd have taken it home. As it relates to buying something preowned . . . why not take the chance? It's pretty common knowledge that most everything coming out of the Custom Shop as a Reissue 1959 ES175 is a great guitar. That's certainly not the case with the earlier variants of the ES175s. But, this later Reissue seems to be an absolute winner. Also, let's not discount the possibility that the preowned guitar might not be even better than the new one the OP played.

In my opinion, not withstanding custom builds, under the right circumstances buying a preowned guitar is usually the better way to go. Just make sure you do an effective Q&A with the seller . . . pay with a credit card . . get a paper trail documenting a 24 hour right of refusal/return.

[Encinitastubes]

I hear you Patrick2. I've never really bought a new guitar before so this is a first. The reason I didn't go home with it was because I didn't have the funds at the time. The last time I bought a guitar this expensive, I tried it out on different days at different times, even though it spoke to me from the get-go. I figured if someone else bought it, then the guitar gods did not want me to have it.

I'm heading back up today so I'll see how I feel about it the second time around.

[jzucker]

don't buy a new guitar if you like the sound of old guitars on records. An early '70s 175 will have a similar tone to the '60s 175s even though it's got the 3pc neck. It'll be worlds better than the '59 reissue and it'll cost less too.

I don't understand how guys can listen to records from the '60s but then think they need to have a shiny, buffed out new guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

don't buy a new guitar if you like the sound of old guitars on records. An early '70s 175 will have a similar tone to the '60s 175s even though it's got the 3pc neck. It'll be worlds better than the '59 reissue and it'll cost less too.

I don't understand how guys can listen to records from the '60s but then think they need to have a shiny, buffed out new guitar.

he's right, ya know.

Although at re-issue 175 will get you a lot closer than an Eastman...and not to knock Eastman...but you don't get the sound of a set humbucker laminate guitar with a floating pup and solid wood.

[Encinitastubes]

he's right, ya know.

Although at re-issue 175 will get you a lot closer than an Eastman...and not to knock Eastman...but you don't get the sound of a set humbucker laminate guitar with a floating pup and solid wood.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've spent a lot of time shopping, playing, researching and asking. I've even posted a few questions over the past year on this forum. I like two-pickup LCs and although I love all the great guitarists from the '60s, I also like music that is a bit louder, greasier, funkier and slightly filthy at times. Also, the fat neck is important to me; those are rare in 60s and 70s 175s.

i tried the sunburst and the blonde today. I don't think they had been played since I played them a month ago. The set ups were bad and there wasn't as much difference as I remember from last time. Maybe one just had a better set-up when I originally played them. It got me thinking that perhaps Patrick2 has a point -- used might be a pretty good way to go.

This is actually a ton of fun!

[feet]

those guitars weren't vintage when those albums were recorded, you know. and if you can't get those sounds with all the advances and advantages of modern equipment, then that's just user error. with all the strings, picks, pups, pedals, guitars and amps out there, it can be done. trust me. and by all accounts, the new 59 reissues are supposed to be uncommonly good for gibson, which i suppose is a compliment.

would an old guitar be cheaper? probably. would it be better? possibly. if you're willing to wade through the minefield of nut widths and volutes and maple necks and what not, then sure, go for it. but if you're already a little gun shy about spending the money on a new, likely winner, then you may not have the stomach for the vintage offerings, especially considering how difficult it is to get one in your hands. and remember that some/all of the minutiae you're hearing between guitars can be altered/mitigated with new/tailored components or something as simple as a string change or a different pick material.

again, my best advice is to get what you want. if its a 59 reissue, fine. if its a real 59, so be it. if its a used one, good for you. get it right the first time. if you can find it older and cheaper, great. you have to pay a little more, then do so. take your time, do your homework, take some road trips and play everything you can. get what you want and never want again.

until next time.

[Hammertone]

IMO:
- The new 59 reissues are superb guitars - I've played a bunch of them.
- They are as good as ES-175s from the late '50s/early 1960s - I've played a bunch of those as well.
- They are superior to ES-175s from the mid-1960s to now - I've played a bunch of those as well.
- They are less expensive that any PAF-equipped ES-175s from the late '50s/early 1960s.

More like two tons of fun.

"Hallelujah & Amen!
Every Specimen!
Tall, blonde, dark and lean
Rough and tough and strong and mean"

Well…you know the rest….

[Jabberwocky]

My unwashed 2-cents? I'd look for a good used mid-1980s ES-175 with the mahogany neck, back and rim. You can find them used for between $2000 and $2500.

[Encinitastubes]

My unwashed 2-cents? I'd look for a good used mid-1980s ES-175 with the mahogany neck, back and rim. You can find them used for between $2000 and $2500.

Care to elaborate?

[Jabberwocky]

Care to elaborate?

Nice warm smoky plugged-in "archetypal" jazz guitar tone without the expense of a vintage 50s or a 1959 VOS Reissue. I played one and liked it a lot for what it could do as a plugged-in laminate archtop guitar.

I am not one who waxes nostagically about how the 50s ES-175 were lighter built or lighter braced or more acoustic-sounding or whatever. I evaluate it based on what I can play on it and the tones that I can get from it plugged into my amp of choice (lately, a Fender Super Reverb 65 Reissue). And it ticks all the right boxes as an amplified laminate archtop guitar. It is not an archtop guitar meant to be played acoustically (not its strong suit nor that of any ES-175 from any era) and I accept that.

Your mileage may vary.

[Encinitastubes]

Interesting .. I need that fat neck -- you know how the necks were from that era?

[Jabberwocky]

I can't generalise. The one I played felt like my 2006 ES-175 (P90s). It was certainly not 60s thin and I would remember if it were because I absolutely abhor the thin neck.

Still being of Gibson provenance, the neck sizes do vary. A previous owner may have shaved it down. You would have to evaluate it on its own merits.

Not trying to dissuade you from a 1959 VOS Reissue. Fine guitar but a dollar saved is a dollar saved. A used 1959 VOS Reissue costs about $800 to $1200 over that of a 1980s ES-175 with the Hog neck, back and rim.

I like the '80s Hog ES-175 and kick myself daily for missing out on that 1985 offered by Dave's Guitars a few months ago.

P.S. If you truly do love a meaty chunky neck and are not averse to an early '90s Gibson ES-175 Memphis, check out the ES-165 Herb Ellis. It can be found for under $2000 street. The chief "grouse" of many of the ES-165 Herb Ellis is that its neck is too chunky so no thumbovers.

[Jabberwocky]

It is 2014 and I still can't shut up. Broken resolution Number 2. (Number 1 is to stop drinking. Ha! Ha! So far, so good on that front.)

Despite what is written about "they don't make them like they used to in the 50s" Norlin-era and post-Norlin Memphis-built ES-175s, the first thing anyone does to a Gibson ES-175 of any era is to plug it in and listen to the amplified tone. Because I have yet to meet anybody who plays an ES-175 acoustically. OK, I grant the point that the post-50s post-early-60s ES-175s may sound acoustically damped, too heavily constructed, sometimes described as dead-sounding. Plugged-in, does it matter? Not to me for functionality. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Encinitastubes, I would also open up the search to include a used Gibson L-4CES. You asked about the 1959 VOS Reissue and I am making off-the-wall suggestions. Sorry about that.

[Franz 1997]

For me, these heavily constructed Norlin and later 175s have a very practical advantage; they feed back less - important in an electric arch top, and it makes them more useable in combo groups where a lighter-built guitar might give trouble.

I have a late 50s and an early 70's, and I find the electric sound very similar, but the 70's is a more practical instrument.
Yeah, it's a slightly uglier duckling, but the lacquer patina and the vibe have their own attraction, and the sound is there.
Also, I don't worry about taking it out so much.

The 70s necks can be all over the place; mine ( 3 piece) has a bizarre variant that starts quite slim at the 1st fret and then morphs into seriously fat towards the 12th. Actually I have got to like it a lot - just a question of getting used to it.

[Encinitastubes]

Thanks guys. I've gone over this a billion times in my mind and I am going to get a newer '59 reissue.

One question intrigued me, though. One of the ads got a mid-80s 175 said it was superior to the new ones because it was made in Nashville rather than Memphis. Does this mean that it was something other than a production guitar?

[cosmic gumbo]

Memphis factory didn't open until 1986.