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I've used Elixir Nanoweb 12-52's on my Eastman since I got it almost 2 years ago. And I haven't used flatwounds at all for about 20 years. But someone gave me a set of Rotosound TopTape (monel, 12-52), and it was time for new strings, so I gave them a try.
They sound dramatically different - sort of dead but kind of in a good way. I'll probably go back to the Elixers on the next string change, but I'm going to leave the flats on for a while. Makes me feel like I'm borrowing a different guitar! The sonic difference* in these two sets of strings seems far more dramatic than a pickup swap or anything else I can think of would be.
No axe to grind in mentioning this, but I find it quite interesting.
*Added: I'm talking about the electric sound through the same amp.Last edited by Tom Karol; 12-23-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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12-22-2013 09:06 PM
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I too find that string changes add a lot of bang for the buck. I have only replaced pups rarely and only then after experimenting with strings I liked on other guitars.
Originally Posted by Tom Karol
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Well, I'm not planning to replace the pickup or switch strings over the long haul. But I sure am surprised at how different these strings sound - not better or worse - just really different.
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I like flats on my 403 for sure. For me I'm always battling my ears telling me that the guitar is too bright and the flats tame it big time. I think the stock pickup in these really lets the sound of the strings come through without coloring it so much - my theory anyway. I like a more colored electric sound, so I'll be changing out my stock pickup again. The recording you had made with yours a while back sounded great Tom so maybe not everybody needs to change the guitar from stock.
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Thanks! That was with roundwounds - the Elixir 12's - recorded direct through an MBox into ProTools with an amp simulator plugin. I agree that the 403 can be a bit on the bright side in its stock incarnation, but mated with my Henriksen JazzAmp112 which some people might say is too dark, the whole greatly surpasses the sum of the parts. Originally Posted by dmorash
I didn't mention it above, but while the electric sound with these new strings presents an interesting and enjoyable contrast, acoustically they sound like crap compared to the roundwounds. But that of course was to be expected - it is, after all, an electric guitar first and foremost.
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I'm happily back to the coated roundwounds, and there I'll stay ... for now.
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I hadn't noticed this thread, Tom. Interesting.
I've settled on the TI Swing 13s on my 403. They don't sound quite as dark as the D'addario Chrome 12s I used to use on it and they also have much less tension and I like the TI gauges better (little heavier up top but thinner in the middle srtings). Though I'm also generally going through brighter tube amps.
I do use and like rounds for my other guitars though that I play more than jazz with.
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Yeah, but they cost almost as much as one of my Blue Chip picks!
Seriously, I'd like to try them - on your guitar! - and then maybe I'll spring for a set.
A lot of people here do seem to think they're the best flatwounds available and worth the cost.
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They're around $20, sometimes more, definitely pricey. But they last me like 6 months and Santa brings me a pack every year like he does for your special pick!
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I'm big on Elixirs too. I have them on my other guitars but on my AR403CE I'm using TI BB111's.
I do make one swap...that dang 19 G string is too much. I buy an 18 when I buy a set.
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@HallPass (re: Special Picks): Yes, I've got 7 of them now and I only bought 2 myself!
@Jazzrat (re: Elixers): And I thought I was the only one - most people seem to sneer when I mention them!
Forum question: How does one 'Reply-With-Quote' to more than one post at the same time?
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Tom
I can see why someone might give you those Rotosound strings - I used those when I first started playing jazz 'cos that was all my local store had in stock.
Then I read on this forum about TI's and managed to find some at Ivor Mairants' shop in London. As soon as I changed, my Epi JP sounded ten times bigger and better.
I had a second set of Rotosounds bought as a spare set in case I had any more difficulty in finding flatwounds. They're still sitting round somewhere, all these years later. I have no intention of using them. If anyone wants them, pay me the postage and they're yours.
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Ha! I was given two sets, and I don't intend to use the second set either; I already gave away the D string to someone who broke one and didn't have a spare - probably didn't match too well with the bronze strings on his acoustic though! (How do you break a D string anyway?!) Originally Posted by mangotango
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+1 on the TI Swing 13s. On my two archtops I've gone from round wound to half wound to TI Be Bops (kinda half wound) and flats. The Swing 13s I find to be the perfect string for my playing and desired jazz tone. I get 6+ months out of a set.
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Just a thought... does it drive anyone else mad that TI calls their flats "Swing", considering they didn't have flatwound guitar strings until the 50's. If anything the flats should be called "Bebop" and the rounds "Swing"!
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I never thought about that. Originally Posted by campusfive
I think they should be called round and flat, because I forget which is which by their name. Then you have the George Benson's which come both ways. <confused/>
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agree with campusfive, had the same thought, its counter-intuitive...
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I use a variety of flatwounds strings, including TI, Pyramid (both nickel-wrapped, low-tension), some GHS and old D'Aquisto (both stainless steel-wrapped, higher tension), and I use the Rotosound Top Tapes as well. I really like them in terms of feel and sound. They are not as smooth-feeling as the others, which is immaterial to me, and they sound like another flavour of flatwound, which is also fine by me, just as several different flavours of ice cream are fine by me. Sure, de gustibus non disputandum est and all that, but what is it you don't you like about the Top Tapes?
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Fair question! It's, in all fairness, not that I don't like the Top Tapes per se. I did have them on for a couple of months. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Pros (in comparison to roundwounds and not other flatwounds):
Because they had more tension and were smoother, I was able to lower the action without inducing buzzing.
They certainly felt smooth enough.
I liked them for amplified rhythm.
Cons (again, in comparison to the roundwounds I was and am again using):
They killed the acoustic sound of the guitar, and I practice alot acoustically.
I lost the 'grand piano' bass I'd had with the roundwounds (amplified).
The unwound strings sounded too much different than the wound strings to me, even after readjusting the pickup polepieces for good string-to-string balance.
Very quick decay - I guess that's to some extent a general flatwound characteristic.
The roundwound strings I use just seem better suited to this guitar ... for me. It's X-braced, and I do like a bit of acoustic character in the sound. It seems to 'sing' more with them.
But you were right to point out that I was probably unfairly pileing on. And I don't really have a frame of reference vis-a-vis flatwounds in general
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Not you - I should have been more specific. Your explanation was clear enough, and you weren't comparing Top Tapes to other flatwounds. I was asking mangotango, who was comparing them to TIs (flats or rounds?). Originally Posted by Tom Karol
Fair question! It's, in all fairness, not that I don't like the Top Tapes per se. …[]...But you were right to point out that I was probably unfairly pileing on. And I don't really have a frame of reference vis-a-vis flatwounds in general
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Hmmm... I'd never heard of RotoSound Top Tapes before -- I've never seen any RotoSound string sets before -- but the comments here and on JustStrings sound interesting and the price is right... 12 gauge is light for me, I'd bump the unwound strings up by 1.
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To me, they felt and sounded dead and lifeless, with no sustain and a definite "clunk" as I hit the string. By comparison, the TI Swings seemed much more responsive and had a fuller, more resonant sound. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Please bear in mind that the TopTapes were my first experience of flatwound guitar strings and although they had the general sound that I was anticipating, the lack of response left me unenthusiastic. That was several years ago now, but I still recall the sense of relief that I felt when I strung up with the Thomastiks - "so this is how they should sound!"
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But don't the E & B (plain) still sound the same? How do you adjust for the inbalance? Or, was there inbalance with the rounds? Originally Posted by Tom Karol
Last edited by Woody Sound; 03-05-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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I have T-I Swings on my SH550 (10s), my ES-335 (11s), my AFJ91 (12s), and my G6120 (11s). I love them. Those guitars will never see another brand.
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I adjusted the pickup pole pieces to yield balanced volume across the strings (had to raise some of the wound ones - didn't touch the plain ones), but the plain strings - while probably sounding the same as before - sounded a lot different tonally than the (flat) wound ones. Of course, plain strings will always sound different than wound ones, but in this case the difference was far more dramatic than with the roundwounds. Perhaps BDLH's idea of swapping out the .012P and .016P for a .013P and a .017P would have been a good one. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Last edited by Tom Karol; 03-05-2014 at 01:21 PM. Reason: spelling
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