Suggest a purely acoustic archtop

[Rob MacKillop]

Not now, unfortunately, but later in 2014, I'll be in the market for a purely acoustic archtop. Budget will be around 2,000 UK Pounds - about 3,000 USD, say.

It will not be for driving a jazz orchestra, like Freddie, but will instead be for quiet, mellow, fingerstyle and plectrum solo repertoire. So, warmth is more important than volume.

I'm not interested in single-pickup archtops which were made with that in mind, I'd rather something designed from the ground up to be made and played as an acoustic.

Dave Stewart in Canada has a beautiful acoustic archtop - the Cremona.

but the added tax for import into the UK really puts the price beyond my budget. If there is a UK luthier offering the same quality of work, I'd be interested.

Dave's L5 copy, the cunningly titled Elle 5, is a possibility as it is cheaper than his Cremona.

I wrote to him a few days ago, but got no response...

Your thoughts are welcome.

[uburoibob]

Hey Rob,

I don't think you'll be looking for a model so much as an individual guitar within a builder's model designation. I can't think of one serious acoustic archtop that isn't made one at a time by hand. And for $3,000 USD, you MIGHT be able to find a Steve Andersen Streamline or Metro Special used. While both came with floating pickups, both were designed as modern acoustic archtops. And that's going to be key in your search - the word 'modern'. There are still a lot of builders making guitars that are meant to be hammered and driven rather than being responsive to a fingerstyle. I can recommend Steve Andersen's guitars from the experience of owning four of them - one with a pickup built into it. I really think you'd love one of his Oval Holes. Having the port at the top bout near the player's ear really delivers a nice balanced sound with proper low end right to where you listen.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Bob

[rpguitar]

Hey Rob,

I'm pretty sure I am on the same page regarding what you're after. Have you considered finding a nice 16" Gibson from the 1930s? Playing a period instrument is a lot of fun. An L-7 or L-12 is in your price range, especially given a nice time window for hunting the right one down.

[Eddie Lang]

Rob, I think you need to decide what kind of tone you're after. If it's modern, I agree with Bob, a used Andersen Streamline is arguably about as good as you'll find. They're not just "good guitars for the price", they are great guitars any way you look at it, period. The only thing is that it may require patience to find one...

If on the other hand you're after a more "vintage" kind of tone and vibe (and I think you might be, judging from stuff you play on your invaluable youtube channel), then I'm with Roger. You can find a 1930-40’s, 16" or 17", L-7, L-10, L-12, or L-4 in the $2,000-$3,000 price range. Some dealers ask more for these, but many ebay offerings go for that. There's often L-4s at $2,000 and L-7s at $2,500 that don't even sell on ebay. Especially if you're looking for a sunburst instead of a blonde or a black guitar (then there's a premium). I'd be surprised if you weren't happy with one of those.

[Rob MacKillop]

All good points, guys. I would of course prefer to be able to play the guitar before deciding, but that is unlikely to be an option. Of course, returns are generally possible, but the cost adds up for that.

Modern or vintage? Hmm...good question. I do have a reputation for the older repertoire, so maybe a Gibson would be the path to follow, but I do prefer a more modern neck. That's ultimately why I sold my Loar 700 - that pronounced vee-shaped neck proved too restrictive for my technique.

I'll keep my eye on ebay, but my government likes to make me pay 20 per cent extra to them, for some unfathomable reason...so, unless it's a bargain, a US import might be beyond me.

What about this Yunzi brand I keep hearing about? Would an all-acoustic L5 from them be worth considering? I would still have to pay tax on it, but if the price is right...

[spiral]

$4-5k is about the going rate for a custom guitar in the US (with a few exceptions). I presume it's about the same in Europe—having looked at Daniel Slaman's and AJL's prices.

Gibson is a good way to go if you like vintage guitars. They all sound totally different though so an L12 might sound better than an L5 and so on. It would be hard to buy these blind if it's going to be your go-to guitar. Old Hofners are an option too if you don't mind a narrow nut. I had a beautiful 465 (that Wikipedia is using on their site) that was carved, but I have fat fingers so had to sell.

Yunzhi is certainly an option and the first thing I thought about when I saw your budget and specs. You asked in the Yunzhi thread and I gave a lukewarm answer but the longer I have owned mine, and had time to compare them to other guitars, the more I realize how nice they are.

You could spec out a 16" x 3.75" parallel braced w/ whatever scale, nut width, and any other request you wanted for about $1000 after shipping—hopefully a UK owner can chime in with pricing in £'s. The Loar is 24.75" scale. An L5 is 25.5". Here is what the Yunzhi might look like: Blonde & Orange (?) burst. (an Eastman basically)

The Yunzhi necks aren't particularly deep, but they are somewhat wide, like a D or U (similar to the Gretsch Panthers, but not quite as chunky). So they feel substantial and I think that's where a good amount of volume comes from—and a reason the Loar sounds so good/loud. You can always get it shaved down if it's too big.

[fws6]

Oversprayed , as in completely refinished ? That very wide open 3 tone sunburst doest particularly look like 37 to me

The walnut is known for being very loud and a bit more trebly sounding compared to the 'normal' maple , but theyre great guitars and 1600 pounds might not be too bad at all

[rpguitar]

Wow - do check out the Epi lead from AS100... that looks great!

I am admittedly quite ignorant to Epiphone, having developed an irrational bias against them since my very first steel string guitar (age 9) was a cheap Epi with unplayable action. But from what I have gleaned from the net, their necks are rounder and narrower than equivalent Gibsons.

I will say that I don't think the average 17" Gibson is what you want. An X-braced model from 1934-39 perhaps, but the later parallel ones are usually not sweet/dynamic enough for a fingerstyle player. However, the 16" guitars were built to a different set of expectations, despite the parallel braces (generalizations on bracing fail here). I only have two of them to draw on, but they are the nicest fingerstyle guitars to play among all archtops I've gotten my hands on.

The only exception to that from my personal experience would be a Solomon Phidelity or Imperial, phenomenal for sensitive modern playing, but out of your price range.

[Rob MacKillop]

An Epi on my doorstep - whodathought? There is one big problem with it, though - I don't have the money just now! It will be a few months before I do, but there's no harm in looking just now, as long as I don't fall in love with something that will sell quickly...

I could ask the seller in Edinburgh if I could come and see it, hopefully play it.

So, generally speaking, for a sweeter sound go for an x-braced top?

[cmajor9]

Rob - do you know about Daniel Slaman's guitars (from Netherlands). He offers both purely acoustic and electrified archtops. In some ways they offer the best of vintage and modern together, with 'recreations' of Gibson models as well as 'idealized' combinations. It might be too high for your budget, but in any case worth a look:

http://www.newvintageguitars.com

[rpguitar]

So, generally speaking, for a sweeter sound go for an x-braced top?

Yes. But don't rule out the parallel braced 16" Gibsons as I mentioned earlier. I believe them to be in a class by themselves. I know it's way out of budget, but my '28 L-5 is the sweetest archtop I've played and it pre-dates X-bracing altogether. I think that the less costly pre-1935 16" models have a lot of potential for you if you go vintage.

[Rob MacKillop]

Cmaj9, Premium guitar, for sure, and naturally at a premium price. I'd love one, but don't live in that financial climate. Mimd you, with all the instruments I've bought over the years, I could certainly have afforded one over that time span. It doesn't work that way, though...not with me, alas...

[Rob MacKillop]

Yes, Roger, I'll keep that in mind....

The guy in Edinburgh is disappearing for a couple of weeks tomorrow, and is not free tonight at a time when I am. Too bad...

[bananafist]

Rob,
I feel your need, and the difficulty of meeting it in the UK.

I asked the guy who builds the Rialtos if he'd consider a 16" non cutaway, but at the time, (a year ago,) he wasn't interested. His two guitars on guitarmart have been offered for a while, but I've no experience of trying them.

I was in contact with Dave Stewart last year re the Elle, and he put me onto a store which had sold one. They were very complimentary, but like you, I'd like to try 'em first, and Torontos a long way away.

As you'll see from my avatar, I have a 16" Slaman thinline, built for another member here, but its acoustic volume, whilst pleasant, is not very loud.

There was a lovely L12 on the UK ebay recently, no bids when it closed at £2800. Wonderful looking guitar, exquisite birdseye back, very nice condition.

I have large hands and fingers (as you may have guessed) and prefer a 1 3/4", or bigger, nut, most Gibsons are a bit tight for me. Watching your vids of your Loar, almost made me decide I'd get one, but I'd like to check out the neck personally, after your comments. You might luck onto a 1928 L5 reissue on ebay, but don't hold your breath.

I'm coming around to thinking the Peerless Maestro may be the way to go, for me, wider neck, ebony board, small all solid wood body, £2k price tag. Not as pretty or drool-worthy as an old Gibbo, but at least they're obtainable here in the UK! There's an acoustic (I think,)demo of one on Y-tube that sounds quite pleasing.

Good luck!

[D.G.]

I played a 40's or 50's Epi once that was probably the best acoustic archtop I've ever touched. Balanced all the way across the tonal spectrum, loud (loud as a gypsy guitar), but with lots of subtlety. I think it was priced about $2700 and if I'd had the money I'd have snapped it up, but...

OTOH, I've also played lots of vintage Epi/Gibson/Guild/ etc guitars that look great but a total dogs.

The moral of the story is do NOT buy used without a good return policy! And be prepared to go through lots and lots of guitars before you find a really good one.

I myself bought a new Eastman 905 non-cutaway that I'm pretty happy with, though it's a bit "nasally" sounding from the player's perspective. Beautiful and full sounding from the audience side though.

[jasonc]

I don't normally have a desire to own other makers' guitars but I think I have a crush on that '38 Epi Broadway. I'm a sucker for the comb-over headstock that Epiphone used to use. Wow!

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks, guys. Much to mull over.

bananafist - the Maestro does sound interesting, despite having a pickup. I'll try to play one first.

Jabberwocky - nice, but...hmmm...the expensive J18X above it looks incredible...

D.G. - wise words.

[Rob MacKillop]

What do we think of the Eastman AR905? Looks gorgeous.

[Rob MacKillop]

or AR810?

[spiral]

What do we think of the Eastman AR905? Looks gorgeous.

I just sold a 605 (same guitar as the 905, just less fancy). They are nicely made. Great for the price. I don't like the x-braced sound being a fan of the Loar and other guitars built in that style. The Eastman sounds more even which people call sweet, which it is, but to me it just sounds like it lacks punch especially when you dig in.

[Rob MacKillop]

Or even the AR804, the L4 clone? Lou at Guitars 'n Jazz tells me these are special order only...

[spiral]

Or even the AR804, the L4 clone? Lou at Guitars 'n Jazz tells me these are special order only...

I owned one of those too and they are really lovely. They have a good deal of cut to the sound but much more bass. If you like the Loar that's probably the closest you will get with an Eastman. I had a prototype with a 1 11/16" nut otherwise I would have kept it. Kojo27 has it now.

[Rob MacKillop]

It might suit my style of playing. I've asked Lou what a custom order entails...financially speaking.

[Spook410]

I've been watching this thread with some interest (thanks Rob) as I have some similar questions. I'm about to order another guitar. I'll spend about $1000. I would like to optimize the acoustic sound.
- Acoustic pickup, no electric pickup. Sometimes amplified, sometimes not.
- Played with a pick, sometimes assertively
- Blues/jazz std's/rock/folk in restaurants and coffee shops

My 17" maple archtop is good but a bit bright and is dedicated to electric strings for the foreseeable (TI's are better than you would think but still not phosphor bronze). My traditional 18" maple archtop is quite good, but large and still a bit bright. I think I can improve on it. I wish I could spend some time with a parallel braced guitar to see how I like it, but that would require purchasing one. I think I can live with a Benedetto based X braced model if I can get the design features right. That and I find modern necks to my liking. That and it's the only way to get away with spending only a grand.

I haven't played anything out that has been even close to what I already have, but I'm not on the east coast to delve into the diversity of the archtop world. So..

- Something like and Eastman 804?
- A deeper 17" mahogany? Full blown 18" mahogany?
- Something like D'Aquisto Solo features with large sort-of-f-holes to optimize acoustic performance? Does this work?
- Something else?

[Eddie Lang]

Or even the AR804, the L4 clone? Lou at Guitars 'n Jazz tells me these are special order only...

A friend of mine who is an Eastman dealer had one of these in the shop. I even think that he still has it. It's Michael MacLeod at The Acoustic Guitar, here in Calgary. Great guy to deal with.