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[QUOTE=mangotango;369571]. Then take a look on ebay.co.uk. There aren't "all the other 175's waiting to be sold" over here. American guitars carry a premium price and are scarce by comparison with all of the Oriental copies floating about. [QUOTE]
Right you are "mr. Mango"...I haven't seen very many 175s available for resale on Fleabay. Yes, there is the very odd one that comes up now and then and if it isn't snapped up by some vintage guitar resaler (lots of them demo on Youtube), you have maybe a "snowballs chance in Hell" trying to get one by bidding on them.
[QUOTE]
And I have to say, I agree with the idea if you can afford it, of trying out the 175 before you sell anything. Sure you'll take a hit on the Peerless - but isn't it worth if for the chance of ending up with a quality guitar that's up there with your other favourites? I've tried a couple of 175's recently - one was brand new and was a pig to play, the other a couple of years old and was a joy. You won't know until you try it. [QUOTE]
If it was a "pig to play", then it wasn't set up properly. The Gibby one (Memphis custom shop) I tried at the factory
where the 175 and 335 are made in Memphis in 2007 was a "dream to play"..the only thing that held me back at
the time was the steep $4500 US asking price and being from Canada, I would have to tack another 25 % on that
price for shipping, Canadian taxes (13%) and the exchange at the time of about 10%..in other words about
$5600 CDN...I didn't have that kind of money at the moment and I suppose I should have pulled out the plastic
and said I'll take it Gibson..I really loved it..it was me..it talked to me like a sultry blonde trophy GF..but the
practical side of me said.."No Dan!'...and I kicked myself for several months after for not going ahead and worry
about the money later. I suppose I could have almost had a Montgomery L5 for that kind of green..but that
ES 175 with flammed AAA maple top and those classic 57 were to "die for"...
[QUOTE]
On the other hand, I've played plenty of Peerless guitars and only disliked one. But they weren't MIA Gibsons, if that's what matters to you. [QUOTE]
Peerless seems to be on the rise these days. Certainly the Monarch is one (at a working man's price) that seems
to have the tone and esthetics that it would appeal to me. I'm thinking...may spring for one meself..as
I can do my re-wiring and change out the floating pup, to a boutique one (Lindy Fralin, SD, or even get Jason Lollar
to build me one to my specs)....ah..money..why does it always stand in the way of true happiness.....
Lets also consider it an investment for the future..if you are ever down and out and need cash fast..you can use it like "gold" to get a cash injection and most buyers are not going to argue to try and beat you down.So it's up to you whether you're willing to take the possible financial hit for the chance of getting what might be the guitar of your dreams. Look on it as a booking fee.
cheersLast edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-17-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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10-17-2013 08:35 AM
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Hey Daniel
Thanks for your response. Yeah, after I posted above I went onto The 'Bay and counted a whole 6 (including one thinline) 175's across the entire UK site (being sold as UK listings - I'm not talking about those actually from US dealers, as we have the same sitation as yourselved with shipping and import duties). For good measure, there were also two Heritage equivalents (which is a rarity in itself). So, not exactly awash with them over here.
The "pig" 175 that I tried - yes, it could have done with a good set-up, principally a better cut nut; the electronics were a bit hit and miss; and the neck felt a bit clubby for my liking. All in all, not my cuppa. On the other hand, the "joy" guitar that was going second hand in a different store was well set up, had a full sound, perfect action, was responsive, light....and way beyond my budget. But, as I say, over here classic USA guitars go at premium prices no matter what, and so you really should try before buying.
Peerless - As I have said on here before, if my Vestax D'Angelico NYL-5 hadn't come up at just the right time, I would most likely have bought a Peerless - they really are that good. I know of several players gigging around London who have bought Peerless archtops to avoid taking out their precious vintage Gibsons and the like.
Mind you, I went to a masterclass given by Dave Cliff (a well-known UK jazz guitarist) at the Jazz Workshop band that I attend and he'd brought his son's Tanglewood archtop (I believe it's a branding of Cort guitars over here??) and he sounded remarkably good. Proof of the old maxim that it's the archer that counts, not the bow and arrow.
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"Proof of the old maxim that it's the archer that counts, not the bow and arrow."
How true and I've turned a few fleabay Epiphone Emperor IIs from sow's ears to silk purses. :-)
Don't get me wrong, I love Gibbys..but around here, they are too expensive unless you are gigging and
then the probability of getting them stolen is very high..so a good import makes more sense..especially
one that can be replaced. I shudder when I hear about the prices they ask on a '59 Les Paul..hundreds
of thousands! Ted McCarty would be rolling over in his grave if he knew that! He made them so the
average guitar player could afford them and enjoy them..now these are becoming "closet queens" because
you simply cannot take the risk of taking out of your house and insuring them at that the going market
price is another can of worms. Try to explain to your home insurance company that you have a '59 Les Paul
Standard (or Custom) that is appraised at $250,000 US dollars as a collector's item..they will laugh at you!
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Wow, guys, you have all been very generous with your time and comments! Thanks, all of you!
Well, I'm off to try the 175 out tomorrow, so GNAPPI (Gary)/BILLC, taking your good advice to try-before-buy, it will be the acid test of course. From my watching of a couple of months, there aren't actually that many second-hand 175s out there in the UK as a few of you guys have spotted, and the price I've seen is one of the best (and hardly any available in the finish I want). But we have a recession and folks think twice before parting with £2K at the moment - quite rightly so. But I confess I can actually afford it right now with no plastic involved. Maybe not in a couple of months, when other life-demands pop up. I can see that 'investment'-wise, I would potentially get back a larger fraction of the purchase price than other instruments, if I need to sell. However if it is 'the right guitar', I would aim to buy to keep. That's why, Mangotango, "the chance of ending up with a quality guitar that's up there with your other favourites?" - this is why I'm considering a somewhat crazy course of action of disposing of the Peerless straight away, and I agree with you :-) !
Some very sound and sensible advice from all of you; ROGER (rpguitar), yes, the 'bonding' thing with a good instrument IS important to me. How they look/feel; but not the prestige thing so much - I love my PRS and Ibanez JEM because they look, feel, play as high quality instruments. The JEM is a case in point - its the FP2 (floral pattern - which I love) and many might find horrible! And some folks seem to despise signature guitars (it's a Steve Vai, of course) whereas I don't care - I just like it for what it is. So, ESCC/CHAZMO, the iconic thing is a waypointer for me, yes, definitely, considering what others (jazz and rock) have done with 175s (my biggest teenage influence was Steve Howe with a 175!). FRANZ 1997, yes you're spot on - versatility is an issue for me (hence owning such disparate guitars), although at the moment, I don't gig, I am currently in a recording-only band (although gigging may come in the future), and the rock/indie/electronica music that we play demands the bridge pickup, which is why 2bonot2bop, although I can see those Cremonas are very beautiful, they aren't quite flexible enough for me.
Daniel Kuryliak, you tell a fascinating story - thank-you - I love your "tonal quality" post - like Roger (Rpguitar) asks, I am looking for this kind of magic when I pick up the instrument. Mind you, my limited experience is that this can be v subtle. It was immediate and obvious for the PRS Studio, hence the "oozes quality and tone" comment I made; however, it was less so for the Ibanez JEM and I spent a few days wondering why I had shelled out that much money when it didn't on the face of it seem that much better than my mid-range Ibanez S570DXQM - realization that it truly was a quality instrument came with time and I now recognize that the JEM feels and sounds like nothing that the cheaper Ibanez could produce.
So, off to try it out tomorrow :-) & I will take the Peerless to compare (recalling that I already have one, with finish-issues, to be replaced)
Someone mentioned "good valve amp etc." Bizarre as it may seem (heretical?) much of my work/play is through headphones and whilst I have a good-quality valve amp/combo (Carvin Legacy 3/1), it doesn't get used much, so I go through a Line 6 POD for amp modelling/EQ and then a series of Eventide stompboxes for the 'augmentation'. For fooling around, I actually use a Line 6 Mobile through an iPad with headphones, and because I know what this sounds like, I will take it tomorrow as otherwise I will be distracted by whatever amp the 175 is put through (besides, I hate trying out in shops - always find it embarrassing!). Thanks again everyone - this is such a helpful & friendly forum! I'll keep you posted as to what happens, if anything! David
PS sorry I am not very good at using these forum-post things!
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[QUOTE=dslee;369668]Wow, guys, you have all been very generous with your time and comments! Thanks, all of you!
I also use a PODxt and through free Kristal recording engine s/w which you can, btw, download for free.Someone mentioned "good valve amp etc." Bizarre as it may seem (heretical?) much of my work/play is through headphones and whilst I have a good-quality valve amp/combo (Carvin Legacy 3/1), it doesn't get used much, so I go through a Line 6 POD for amp modelling/EQ and then a series of Eventide stompboxes for the 'augmentation'. For fooling around, I actually use a Line 6 Mobile through an iPad with headphones, and because I know what this sounds like, I will take it tomorrow as otherwise I will be distracted by whatever amp the 175 is put through (besides, I hate trying out in shops - always find it embarrassing!). Thanks again everyone - this is such a helpful & friendly forum! I'll keep you posted as to what happens, if anything! David
It takes a bit to get used to..but I found that after reading the user manual with it, it's fairly "straight forward".
Back in the early 70s, I was chief engineer at Eastern Sound Studios in Toronto, Ont, so operating a 32 input/24 o/p
recording console was an enlightning experience.
Right now, I have a Peavey Valve King that I use that has a variable control to go from class b2 to class a
(at a reduced power setting of course as one of the 6L6 power tubes is removed from the circuit in the class
a mode.
I upgraded the rather crappy sounding chinese OEM valve king speaker and put in a Celestion 12 Century Vintage
with a neodymium magnet rather than the harsh ceramic magnet that is on the OEM speaker. My favorite vintage
speaker is the Alnicos that used to be on the 60s amp models and now are harder to find.
http://www.tubedepot.com/sp-cel-g12cen.html
Tubes are another story and a science in themselves as most tubes are made in the East European countries,
Mine came originally with Sovtek (Made in Russia) and not that good, so I replaced them with JJ
12ax7 and a better pair TungSol 6L6 STR matched pair. These seem to have that nice even harmonic "sweet spot" at higher input levels and will handle input overloads easily, which I rarely do. I would have loved to afford a pair of matched RCA new stock 6L6GC "Blackplates" power pair ..snarf!..but the price is too rich for my "po" boy's palate. LOL! At $199 a piece the two RCA blackplates 6L6 would have cost as much as I paid for the amp in the first place..but I can always dream..that if I ever win a lottery..I'll be slapping down me plastic on them..while they are still available..that is.
http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6l6gc-rca-bp.html
but they are getting very pricey these days as with any USA made tubes that are from old production years ago.
http://www.tubedepot.com/ts-6l6str.html
You seem to be doing very well. :-)PS sorry I am not very good at using these forum-post things!
DanLast edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-17-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Thanks everyone! You can see outcome in new post (N ES-175 GD), which gives it away. Relevant to this thread; it was pretty well the 'bonding experience' that Roger (RPguitar) referred to, although not instant. I spent an hour, tucked away in the shop with headphones and iPad so that I had a familiar sound to compare. It was actually quite tough - not a clear-cut decision. I can only describe the look and feel thing as fulfilling the "iconic" and "solid" - it was heavier than the Peerless, and the neck was a litte tricky for me, being used to thinner (depth) necks but just about reckoned I could cope with it. I think the turning point was the sound, especially the neck pickup: full, mellow, but 'growly' as well, with the teeniest bit of overdrive - as elsewhere, I think the bridge pickup needs balancing, volume-wise with height adjustment. You can read elsewhere other impressions. The colour is fabulous and I really, really wanted the Wine Red (not everyone's taste, I am sure). As the NGD thread - I am rather critical of the finish quality compared with my PRS in particular (which doesn't have the heavy Ibanez poly coat). It seems to be little things with the Gibson, and the underlying wood in places, rather than the top coat. Also, the tune-o-matic bridge (not had one before) almost felt on the cheap-and-nasty side, with the saddles popping out when I tried to adjust. In the end, I stripped it, v lightly oiled the threads and that helped. Do get me wrong - I love my purchase but I think maybe Gibson (as a first-time G-owner) are a little quality-complacent. I am nit-picking, I know, but these things cost a lot of hard earned cash! Thanks again everyone who generously gave opinions, advice and time. Very helpful. David
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dslee; more than likely the Gibson ES-175 is a standard production model and yes there is slight variations in quality
of finish and hardware in a production factory environment, such as the archtop factory where they do production
runs of several hundred in a weeks production of Es-175/Es-355. To get REAL quality and attention to detail and
the slightest imperfection..you have to order your Gibson guitar at the Custom Shop. That's where all the L5s are
made and some of the more expensive limited ES-175s. I don't know if they actually take the white wood guitar
from the Memphis high production factory and do the rest in the custom shop..such as finishing and installing
hardware, but more than likely from that beautiful Natural finish flamed AAA maple ES-175 ($4500) I played in
the Memphis factory showroom...these Custom made ES-175 are truly custom made for you..at a price of course.
Sounds like your Gibby came with the standard ABR-1 TOM saddle on rosewood bridge base?
There are far better movable TOM bridges out there that can be adapted easily your ES-175.
BTW.post a pic of your new Gibby in Wine Red.Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-19-2013 at 09:34 AM.
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Hi Dan, here's one of the pix (also in new thread). You've got me wondering..The case says "Gibson Custom", and the Certificate says "Gibson Custom Certificate of Authenticity...The instrument bearing the serial number above was hand built by Gibson Custom...etc." The sticker inside the body says it was made in Memphis... Does any of this tell you anything? Is it a Custom Shop as you refer to? Final funny note in passing - I was about to put it back in its case, when I noticed a few bits of 'stuff' in the case
. Hmmm, thought they might scratch the finish, so vacuumed them out. Just discovered where they came from - inside the guitar!!
I could hear bits inside so, I turned it over, and managed to tip/rattle out quite a little pile of shards of wood! Well, at least they can't scratch the finish in the case now
Best, David
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Yes, the Gibson custom shop for archtops is in Memphis, and I believe an addition to the main factory.
Originally Posted by dslee
If it says "Custom" then it was made as a custom..now whether that is only for the custom finish (wine red)Is it a Custom Shop as you refer to?
or other attributes, it's hard to say. Certainly the pressed plywood maple top layer is not figured the way
I would expect it to be. The custom shop ES-175 (must find the pic I took of it) had a book matched figured
maple top and sides and back (often called flamed maple or tiger maple), but that one may have been a
"special" they made for the yearly NAMM show and ended up in their factory showroom along with some of
their special production run flattops from Boseman Montana .
Well I've seen that with Gibson flattops in the past as well. It doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with itFinal funny note in passing - I was about to put it back in its case, when I noticed a few bits of 'stuff' in the case
. Hmmm, thought they might scratch the finish, so vacuumed them out. Just discovered where they came from - inside the guitar!!
I could hear bits inside so, I turned it over, and managed to tip/rattle out quite a little pile of shards of wood! Well, at least they can't scratch the finish in the case now
Best, David
but again..even in the Gibson custom shop, they have many many orders, so if "vacumned " is not on the final
checkout list for the final inspection, (where they have guitar players check it out by playing it), then that step probably got missed. Sounds like they are getting a bit sloppy at the factory..but..that is
also the dealers responsibilty to check the guitar thoroughly inside and out before putting it on display.
In the guitar store where I worked years ago, we often had to set up the action and check out every
detail and that's why we had repeat customer loyalty.Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-19-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Attachment 8975
$3600 Es-175
Hi David,
here's some of the pics I took from the Gibson Memphis factory tour
$4200 ES-175 "bookmatched/selected top) flame maple plywood top/sides and back of course. For the $600 difference in price you get figured maple wood. I played it and played it and fell in love with it..
but my practical side said "wait"...I kicked myself on the trip back to Canada...it fit me like a
glove..sniff! Shoulda plunked down the plastic and worried about paying it later..opportunities
like that only come once in MY lifetime. And the factory showroom sales dudes were authorized to negotiate down a bit...around 10%...sigh!
Attachment 8976Attachment 8977Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-19-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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Hi Dan, Thanks for the pix of the eye-candy!! That's a very nice sunburst finish (I'm not keen on the vintage one) and you look like you and the maple one were made for each other :-( There'll be a 'next time'. Maybe in Canada? You would have had the anxiety of getting her back (assume you were flying) and the tax/import duty thing too. I brought my PRS Studio back from the US and the anxieties involved (two flights, one on a tiny turbo-prop) nearly killed me...! Mind you, I never seem to learn my lesson - I brought my Carvin Legacy 3 head back from Seattle as hand luggage!! I thought the security guys were going to have a field day with it and insist I check it in (I had the top screws loosened, ready to strip out the valves just in case) - but actually they were fantastic, totally chilled and said they saw stuff like that all the time - just did the swab/gas chromatograph screening and I was away. Just had a very sore shoulder carrying it about the airport!! David
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David..why did you have to say that? The "high maintenance" blonde and me were just getting to know each
Originally Posted by dslee
other..mind you, the stock strings left something to be desired to be sure, but...in that hour or so that
the sales folks left me alone with her and an amp to "know each other"...I was in guitar heaven.
The sales dudes at the Gibson factory showroom that I finally got to see after 41 years of missing the
opportunity to see the Kalamazoo factory and meet Ted McCarty was a missed opportunity that was
finally addressed. So I sat on their couches in air conditioned comfort..it was hot and sticky in Memphis at the end of May...and I pondered and pondered, and did some financial scratching on how I was going to pay for it when I got back..as I mentioned, with taxes and exchanged, it was going be close to $5500. Of course after I tearfully paid my regrets to the sales dudes there, they understood..but also mentioned that they could offer a "wee bit" of a discount, if that would help me out a bit......sniff!..the tears are starting to flow here.
As far as carrying it, no I wouldn't have to do that as I am a bit disabled in my legs, and my female friend who drove me in her car to the World Biggest carving show (Ocean City Md), and then to Nashville..Grand ole Opry, and the big Opryland Mall there at Opry Mills, and in it ..Yea!..the Gibson Showroom..which is like an alter to me to pray to the Gibson guitar gods of past and present.
Played a few Epiphones there, even a "L5ish Regent" and a few others, including a Epi Dot which is the their version of the ED-335. These all played great because the sales dudes there were all guitar players and did the setups personally, or at least checked each one out. My friend bought the ES-335 for her son, who is a guitar nut, now has 9 guitars,and plays semi-pro in some kind of band. Went on the "Genral" Jackson river boat cruise in Nashville, as it seemed to be the touristy thing to do.
After we left Nashville, (couldn't arrange a tour for the Les Paul factory there in our short stay of 2 days), we headed off Memphis, and my personal quest for the holy grail of Gibson Guitars..the Memphis factory where the archtops were made. Spent an entire afternoon, lusting, lusting, playing, playing and pinching myself in between,taking pictures and more playing and thinking....
I'm sure we've all been there before in one form or other...
After I missed my opportunity for a second time in my life (Kalamazoo factory in strike in 1966 was my
first, although I took a tour of Harmony and Kay in Chicago), we went to listen to some bands at
BB Kings place, as my friend is an avid BB King blues fan, along with Clapton..whereas, I'm more on
the jazz-classical side of music. Took my friend to Graceland (been there before) as it was her first
and only time in Memphis and as you may know.."everybody who goes to Memphis HAS to see the KING!"
Anyway, we wrapped up our Memphis visit with yet another RiverBoat cruise and dinner and then started the long drive home to Ottawa, via the Blue Ridge Parkway (both ways)..so I could have brought "Miss Opportunity" home with me, as we were driving, and all I would have had to do is declare her at the border, and pay the taxes owing with my plastic..sigh!..
why! why! why! didn't I go for it, I'll never know.
RE: Your Carvin Legacy 3 (big thumbs up!)
You were Extremely brave to bring back a Carvin Legacy 3 as hand luggage. Thank the "gods in himmel" that it survived without incident! I'm sure that the vacumn inside the valves the EL34s/12ax7 would have been ok, as the cabin is pressurized and it's not a high vacumn in a amplifying tube like in the old picture tubes.
BTW David...AFAIK, there is no import duty on guitars in Canada. Yes, we have Godin and a couple
smaller production places, but mostly custom luthiers, a few in Toronto and a couple or so here
in Ottawa. I did buy and bring over TWO used Epi Emperor IIs from NY state over the border where I had sellers on Fleabay ship to a warehouse..no duty, just the taxes that you would have to pay anywhere in any state these days.Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-20-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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Hi Dan, yes know what you mean - I VERY nearly didn't go to see the 175 on Friday on the basis that I had a perfectly serviceable Peerless. Then, I thought, I would never forgive myself if I didn't, given the Wine Reds are like fairy dust, even new, let alone s/h. Got the 60 mile car journey and NEARLY turned back...but worked out, yes, I do have the cash, it's isn't reckless. Neither were you, and there'll be another. Just checked Cn ebay but none there, but quite a few 'hot blondes'
in US, ranging between $2.8K and $4.1 before the silly-price vintage stuff takes over. Presumably, for the new ones, you could find a shop that would do returns, if it wasn't the right hot blond? Happy with my wild red-head
David
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PS the Legacy was a HUGE gamble. They are (obviously) new production, and hadn't seen one on the UK s/h market in the 15 months they'd been out (new, were few and far between). I was on work in Seattle, had a w/e to kill and huge Guitar Center across the way. Walked in and stood in front of me was a 5 month old s/h Legacy 3 c/w carry case and three way switching unit. Quick poke at the calculator for exchange rates etc. it was LESS than half UK new price for effectively a new amp. Spent an hour in a quiet room trying it, and just had to do it. Was just terrified they'd make me check it in and spent an hour stuffing packing and t-shirts in the carry-case, just in case they did. Airline was no problem (I was lucky enough to be on work and business class, so they are quite accommodating), I was worried about security, but the nicest bunch of chilled guys you could hope to meet (and that is certainly NOT always the case!!). So, happy ending and it glows green/orange/red in my living room at the moment, but I hope to let it rip on stage at some point
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David, when I get my inheritance from my mother (89 going on 90), I WILL be travelling down that road again..
Originally Posted by dslee
I want to be buried with my ES-175 (ok I'm joking here). The thing with these and I can't really express my
feelings about this model as the L5 has never been that close to my heart..but there definitely is some Karma
in these models.IF you are the right match for them. I don't know what kind of music you play, but I am
basically Charlie Byrd (classical guitar bossa nova from the 60s) and Wes Montgomery thumb style.. although
there is no way that I can keep up with his blazing speed thumb work on his recordings..NOBODY CAN..but we
can dream can't we?
As far as my "future blonde" vs your "redhead"...hmmm tough call here, because when you REALLY become attached
to them (psychologically speaking here..and not "looney bin either"), I can't explain it in words, but that guitar
becomes you and you become it when you are playing. There is 1:1 mental process relationship between your
musical thought processes and the sound that comes out of it...the fingers of both hands manipulating the strings
are just mechanisms in between the two mediums.
Yes, I will not fall for this silly collector/closet queen/speculators that buy these guitars up looking for a fast buck
rather than sit down and play these instruments as they were intended to be played..by Gibson.
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Guitar Center..ah yes..you were caught in their web?..I'm sure it must be owned by the "Devil".
Originally Posted by dslee
If you ever have seen the movie "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio (Eugene) and Steve Vai..you will see the Devil laughing with great joy to see Eugene take the fall against his appointed minion, played by Steve Vai..(who incidently played both parts of the "cutting heads"
segment...check out Vai's blazing hammering speed on that segment
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Haha yes, I know it - amazing! I have already given it away, but I am a huge Steve Vai fan
and seen him 3 times in past 12 months. But very catholic tastes (shockingly so) from modern pop (e.g. Snow Patrol, Ellie Goulding, your own Canadian 'Lights'), classical (Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, Rachmaninov), electronica (lots!), Holdsworth-style jazz, rock (Vai, ELP) etc. Difficult to classify our own band music, but a blend of electronica/rock and Brit-indie. But admire all the 'old' jazz players too! We're recording at the moment - I'll post when we release (free) on internet. David
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Here's the W-R 175 on neck pickup only. Quick improvisation to the beginning of a song that is currently 'under construction' (that I'm not too embarrassed to share
). Effects courtesy of Eventide Space "Shimmer"...David
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Cant seem to open your mp3 file for some reason on my computer...never mind..needed to download
a DLL.mp3 plugin..it's good now...listening...
that's a L-O-N-G intro?....but that neck tone you're using on yer WR-175 sound sweet to my ear.
DanLast edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-22-2013 at 06:50 AM.
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Very nice, Lee. It is everything an ES-175 should be.



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