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Does anyone know if the Epi Sorrento is capable of producing smokey, woody jazz tone ? Or is more in 335 territory ?
Thanks...Phil
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10-14-2013 08:31 PM
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That's more a matter of string choice and EQ settings (on the guitar or the amp) than the guitar as such. FWIW, I get very nice and warm jazz tones from a stock Strat.
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It's a hollowbody with a floating bridge, I wouldn't expect the bite and sustain to be equal to a 335.
Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 10-15-2013 at 05:28 AM.
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I'd say it's closer to an ES-330, so think Grant Green-type of jazz tone. Nothing wrong with that.
But as Oldane said, choice of amp, EQ-settings and strings and of course the way you play may be of much bigger influence.....
Edit: I see that the older Sorrentos have a jazz-type wooden floating bridge, parallel bracing of the top and mini-humbuckers. The newer (Korean?) ones have a tom-bridge screwed into the top and P90-pickups and maybe also the same kerfed-spruce layer top reinforcement as the ES-330/Casino. So the older ones are more 'true' archtops, but thinline, the newer ones are in fact Casinos/ES-330s with a different body shap. I wouldn't mind either for playing jazz (I love an ES-335 for jazz too).Last edited by Little Jay; 10-15-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Used to have a '60's one with a neck mini HB
Nice guitar but too bright for me (the mini HB maybe ?)
but some musicians said they prefered my sound on that guitar
to the 335 I also played on at that time .....
It was very revealing of my (lack of) technique and consequently a bit scarey to play at the time
The 335 was flattering and smoothed out my lumps
note the Sorrento was ......... VERY .......... loud acoustically too
I'd probably like the Sorr now
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Thanks guys. The reason I ask is that Epiphone has a limited edition 1962 Reissue - full hollow with the mini-buckers. The thin body depth along with the classic single cutaway shape (plus it's full hollow) is what piques my interest. But I don't know about the sound of the mini buckers - no experience. And point well taken about the 'jazz tone' from a strat ; I've heard it and if a Strat can do it , damn near anything else should be able to as well.
http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Ele...-Sorrento.aspx
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Sunday I brought home the Epi '62 re-issue Sheraton. Same pups, same neck/body wood, but semi-hollow construction. FWIW I'm getting (IMHO) really nice jazz tones from the neck and also the middle position with bridge tone rolled off. I did not play the Sorento but think it would be slightly more so.
I played the re-issue Sheraton (Gibson minibucks) side-x-side with the standard Sheraton II (Epi humbucks) and the minibucks are brighter. . . but not a lot and definitely controlable with the tone knob. I'm loving the box and the tone it's sharing. Maybe take whatever you are playing now to the guitar shop and A/B your current guitar with the Sorento re-issue?
Bix says buy it now. The Epi '62 re-issues are sweeet!
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Wow. This thing in olive is gorgeous. I don't know if it's a good jazz guitar for you but it's just a plain old perfect any-style guitar for me.
If you get mini-humbuckers really close to the strings, and use a heavy gauge you can get a really thick, but still articulate sound, without getting tons of mud like you would with a PAF. That's why i like mini-humbuckers. The body is more shallow too so you are going to get more jangle.
FWIW I owned an Epiphone Anniversary Reissue of the Casino and it was very high class. It was far and away a much better player than all the other current Epiphone Casinos. If the Sorrento is similar it will be a steal.
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Sounds very open and woody to me.
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Oh boy, what a nice reissue!
Epiphone is on the right track with these '62 reissues!
Tempting, tempting.....
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va3ux...I dunno..I played a Gibson Kalamazoo produced one in 1967.. not impressed with it even then,
It's ok though as an "entry level" guitar...and yes you can come up with a "jazz tone" if you experiment,
but it;s still a Sorrento with Epi asian made mini buckers. With the T-o-M bridge it will be a bit brighter
in tone than a ebony jazz box bridge and why do you even need a t-o-m adjustable saddles on movable
archtop bridge?
Also, just my opinion here, but the cheap trapeize tp does not have enough mass to provide that needed
sustain quality to the tone that you get from the cast Es-175 or L5 bridge. I have never liked the Frequensator
for this reason..it doesn't have any mass to it.
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Bix; the Epi minibuckers are brighter as you say, not in the same realm as Classic 57s, although if you experimented
with the tone cap (which rolls off the highs) on the tone pots to a different value, you can get a more "smoky sound"
if you happen to have the right set of strings. Electronically, everything is variable...acoustically, it's another story.
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these are just single cut casinos with minis, right? if that's the case, my thoughts, since i have a casino and a sheraton with minis:
the p90s are warmer, the minis are brighter, but the minis also have a wider frequency range. the p90s are warmer and growlier because they have more low mids, but the minis have both more lows and more highs. so its both clearer and bassier. a little hard to explain, but if you had them in front of you you'd understand immediately.
and since they are single coils, the p90s feel a little more articulate and stingy (and noisier), the minis are chubbier and quieter.
there is room in my heart for both, and between you and me, that sheraton is the greatest guitar of all time. could it jazz? sure, i guess, but it would not be my first choice for that. for versatility, then yes, my first choice. extrapolating all that to the guitar in question, i would assume you'd find some more than acceptable tones in there for you. as oldane mentioned, its almost more a function of how you set it up and your other gear. but the gibson electronics are solid. i've been meaning to upgrade the pups for years, but the simple fact is that the gibsons aren't holding the instrument back at all, and i've learned how to work with them.
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Thanks for your opinion Daniel. I think I'll see if I can try one out somewhere. It's a heck of nice looking guitar but I need to see if it really suits me.
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Epiphone kinda "brags" that the pickups are Gibson USA mini-humbuckers. FWIW, the TOM saddle on a floating bridge can always be swapped with a wooden saddle for some warmth.
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feet; yes the original Gibson produced Sheraton and it's asian counterpart; the Epiphone Sheraton II as it is often
referred too are similar, but with some subtle differences. Everything being equal between the two (vintage and
modern day version of it) the pups and the electronics are the main difference. Back in the early 50s Epiphone
NYC had their own SC called the Tone Spectrum SC and it was (at least rumoured) to have that very distinct and
unique sound that a lot of players liked and different in tonal response to the Gibson P-90. When Ted McCarty of
Gibson bought out Epiphone NYC (from "Epi's" son, Orphie; who was not cut out to run a thriving guitar business
and at one time Gibson's biggest rival) in 1958, the left over parts from the NYC Epiphone factory and any existing
NYC Tone Spectrum SC pups were (apparently used up) and since Seth Lover (father of the PAF classic 57) was
working on a new version for the ES335 series just being introduced, the decision was made to make the
Epiphone version of the 335 called the Sheraton. I remember that the early Sheraton had the minibuckers and
the unique Sheraton tremelo arm. The minibuckers (3) were also used on the very rare Epi Emperor "thinline".
The history of the Minibucker is a bit obscured, but Seth Lover worked in Walt Fuller's electronic dept and Walt
of course was the "father of the p-90" . Seth left Gibson in 1967,when the Gibson amp line was cancelled and
about the same time that McCarty left after a disagreement with CMI (the parent company) to work on the
Bigsby vibrato tp business that he bought off Paul Bigsby. Seth Lover went to "Cali" to work for Leo Fender
on his amp business which unlike Gibson was thriving then.
I regret to this day that Seth or Walt Fuller did not examine the NYC Tone Spectrum pup and try to replicate
it but perhaps the SC days were considered to be "numbered", so the decision made on research on the
minibucker insided was a deciding factor in those days when Gibson production started to go downhill.
There are a few boutique pup makers that can make a much more decent pup such as Jason Lollar that
has taken the time to study the nuances of the various vintage pups and of course, Seymore Duncan that
actually has the original PAF humbucker in his museum that Seth Lover designed.
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I'd really like to try one of these. The size really appeals to me. I wonder what the weight is like? A lot of the newer budget priced archtops are overbuilt way to heavy for my taste.
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though i've never personally encountered one, all i've ever heard about the original ny minis were that they were horrifying treble monsters. budget being what it is, i'll never know. as for lollar, i did get in contact with him about some minis. while i don't doubt they are better, they are already kinda exorbitant. when you factor in the gold covers and some minor tonal tweaks i requested, it got exorbitant-er, and that was the end of that. i know where i'd go if i had the money to throw around, but i'm getting it done with the gibsons. i'll get around to it some day; i love the guitar too much not to.
Originally Posted by Daniel Kuryliak
if its anything like a casino, it'll probably be somewhere in the 6 lb range. after years of playing 9-10 lb+ guitars, its almost a joke to me. the large size distributes the weight nicely. it isn't feather light, but its easy on the back. feels good playing while seated and it makes an awesome couch guitar, too. try out a 335/sheraton and then imagine it was like three pounds lighter. that's more or less what it'll be. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Here's the thing..there are several electrical characteristics in a coil of copper wire and a magnet to energize the string..yes the string..the magnetically energized string is then picked up by the magnetic field (aka "flux") with the p_up. Seth Lover (the father of the humbucker, (God rest his soul) described in an interview years ago to SD (Seymour Duncan) about that little known fact. I proved it myself by first magnetizing a string (low e) by tuning it up,marking the pup area on the string (neck and bridge) and then transferring that string to a piece of white computer 8x11 paper. I then sprinkled iron filings.. (idea from my magnetism theory days), and then watched as the iron filings formed a N to S magnetic field around the magnetized string..cool! Originally Posted by feet
I then took an expensive compass and watched which way the needled spun to the N position and which needle spun to the S pole position on the magnetic string...Yup! Seth Lover was right!
In a smaller p_up such as a minibucker, not only the magnet is smaller from a conventional HB, but so is the coil of #42 awg wound around a smaller spool. That translates not only to a different resistance (impedance) of the mini-bucker but also the inductance changes and that changes the audible frequency response of the lows and highs (aks roll off curves). Also the number of turns, whether it is even wound or scatter wound, or overwound/underwound, all have a part to play in the sound the minibucker p_up produces when amplified.
But I agree with you Feet, that the minis are not the way to go, when you want some "bark" out
of your Sorrento..the P90 IS THE WAY TO GO..it has what I would call..unmistakeable personality,
and Gibson had Walt Fuller (who Seth ended up working for) to thank for this classic p_up.
Listen to this Sorrento WAIL with a P-90
Yes, they are around 6.5lbs. The Bigsby , (if equipped) adds about 10z.if its anything like a casino, it'll probably be somewhere in the 6 lb range. after years of playing 9-10 lb+ guitars, its almost a joke to me. the large size distributes the weight nicely. it isn't feather light, but its easy on the back. feels good playing while seated and it makes an awesome couch guitar, too. try out a 335/sheraton and then imagine it was like three pounds lighter. that's more or less what it'll be.Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-27-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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This may be of interest to you:
Sounds great to me but I don't know if it's your "jazz sound".
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Nice; some octave strumming. Nice clean transparent sound from the pups. Maybe a bit "bright" for my tastes.
but he's got the 3-way in Mid position, so both pups are in the mix and of course the Matchless amp.
Another segment, he's got the neck pup selected and he's got that nice warm "smoky" jazz tone.
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You are right on the sustain, but a Sorrento with P-90 does have bite. See the demo clip with the P-90s. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Shame they cut the clip at 2:04 - that might have answered a lot of questions! It was just getting really interesting. Originally Posted by spiral
And shame about the finish - it may be called 'Royal Olive' but let's face it, that's Snotburst.
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It is SO tempting to say, "It will produce smoky, woody emissions if you hold it over a fire," but I will not yield to temptation.
I had a 90s Korean Sorrentos with P90s. It was OK, much like the Oriental Epiphone Casino repros but built with the upper bouts dead flat. The neck was decent-sized, a nice 'C.' The shape, weight and P90 vibe were all great but the guitar itself was nothing special.
In any event, the Sorrento is capable of producing a smoky, woody jazz sound if you play it that way. As a fully hollow guitar it will tend to have more air and less sustain than an ES-335 as folks have noted above.
Hope this helps.
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He's playing thru a Matchless C30 Head, ($3000) with what looks like a Matchless ESD 2x12 extension speaker cabinet ($1000) so why shouldn't it sound good? Originally Posted by mangotango
Correction, it's the 50th anniversay "Snotburst"...Gibson finished some in this burst in 1962...don'tAnd shame about the finish - it may be called 'Royal Olive' but let's face it, that's Snotburst.
know why but it never sold as well as a cherry burst.
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