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Someone on my local Craigslist has a 1939 L-7 for sale that looks great in the pictures. Nearly mint, but missing a pickguard. Asking $3200. The problem is that the neck has the parallelogram inlays and the headstock has the diamond inlay of an L-12 of the era. All the specs I can find for '39 L-7s show picture frame neck inlays and a curlicue design on the headstock. The tailpiece and tuners are silver--not gold like the L-12--and seem period correct for an L-7. What gives?
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09-20-2013 07:12 PM
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I searched but couldn't find it. My understanding is that 1939 was a transition year between X-bracing and parallel for the 17" Advanced L models. I would not be surprised to see an L-7 with parallelograms and parallel bracing from '39. Maybe the headstock inlay was another mix and match feature. Gibson was known for being consistently inconsistent!
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You mean something that looks like this beauty from 1940: http://www.archtop.com/ac_40L7N.html ?
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Something like that Archtop.com beauty, yes. Except sunburst with a dark stained back. The headstock inlay on the one for sale looks like this:
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Oh, looks like the headstock of rpguitar's 1935 Gibson L-12. Look at the label designation. Could it have been a special order by the original owner although I wonder who would go, "I want an L7 with an L12 neck"? The L7 used maple that had supposedly less figure and was stained a dark Walnut and had nickel-plated parts. There is very little to tell it apart from an L12.
What's the back-story on that L7? What did the seller say?
Could you take it to a reputable luthier and ask him if it could be a re-neck? I don't know if Gibson still has any records of it.
It could also have started life at Gibson as an L-12 and somewhere along the line got "downgraded" to an L7 because of a finish flaw in the maple back that required a dark Walnut stain to hide it. So, the L12 neck stayed but it was designated and sold as an L7. Not unknown for Gibson to do that. Strictly apocryphal but I read it on the Internet (hence it is true, groan) that some L-50s started out as the 16" L-5s, after the war. Got "downgraded" to move the guitars out, off the shop floor.
If the neck joint and angle looks solid and it plays well, why not?Last edited by Jabberwocky; 09-21-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Also, check if the neck is maple or mahogany. My X-braced '35 L-12 had a hog neck with 24.75" scale.
Bottom line is I highly doubt there is anything askew with the guitar. Consistently inconsistent, remember?
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Yes, I am with rpguitar. There is nothing non-original about it in all probability. Get the neck angle looked at and check that the arch of the top has not collapsed. You don't want to pay for a neck reset or the arch of the top restored or at least, get a hefty discount if you do.
A new set of frets and a fretboard re-plane won't be a bad idea at all, if the guitar needs it. Do whatever you have to do to make it play like Butt-A (glottal stop to a T).
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Thanks for the input, guys. The backstory is that the current owner bought it from an estate sale a few years ago and it hadn't been played for a while at the time. I don't know how much the current owner plays it, but it looks to be in good shape for a '39. No checking, etc.
The only thing against the theory about the neck starting out as an L-12 and then being downgraded to an L-7 in mid-production is that there is no binding on the headstock like an L-12 would have. The logo seems appropriate for the era, doesn't it?
The thing that got me thinking is that you hear so much about Gibson knockoffs from Asia these days. Would anyone bother to fake an L-7? It seems like they would only bother with popular guitars like Les Pauls that all the rockers want to buy.
My curiosity is getting the better of me, so I guess I will have to go look at it. Please let me know if you think of anything else I should be looking for.
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Oh, that's not the photograph of the actual headstock of the L7 for sale.
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The photo I posted above IS the headstock of the actual guitar for sale.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Well, then I do see a thin single layer binding all round it which is as it should be. The L-12 headstock has single binding, not multi-binding. Look closer. The white background obscures it if your monitor has low contrast.
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when Gibson introduced the advanced 17" L-12 it got fat triple binding on the top, back and peghead
L-12's always had gold hardware as well.
the guitar pictured is an L-7, single bound headstock, nickel plated tuners.
somehow the L-12 peghead inlay found it's way onto this guitaR
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My 1947 L-12 has a single-bound headstock with a Holly Inlay. OK, that's not a 1947 and it is not an L-12 either. rpguitar's 1935 L-12 does have a multi-bound headstock. So, yeah, consistently inconsistent explains it. What I meant to say to Chazmo was, the headstock does have binding and that headstock shown in the photo is bound.
Last edited by Jabberwocky; 09-23-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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post war L-12's have single bound peghead
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I got the identical L7N i thought was from 1948. Has original? De Armond pup. Really 1940? Serial number faded. artb
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This is a 39 if I remember correctly
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The serial number in 1948 (actually from April 1947) would start with the letter "A." If it was earlier, it would be a 5 digit number beginning with 9, like 99467 for example. Can you see it at all, even with sunlight shining through the f-hole and your reading glasses on? Originally Posted by artb
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NICE TO SEE A 1939 that is certainly different than mine. Maybe UV or IR light would help discern the number. The pup has plating wear and aging indicating originally installed. This an 1100 model De Armond 1948? art b.
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The pickup doesn't help date the guitar, because no Gibson ever came with a DeArmond pickup as a stock item. That was a standard non-cutaway acoustic L-7N when originally sold. Someone mounted the DA pickup, rather nicely at that, probably with a fresh replacement pickguard.
Here's my 1947 L-5N with a nearly identical setup! (Which I installed)
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THANKS MUCH, very nice examples here and nice to see with excellent comments. i find this old dog L7 with checkered finish a very easy and enjoyable player. the tiny pup is surprisingly sensitive with rich sound. This my best player of a life long (now 83) collection of many. Will look more carefully for serial number. artb
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Art, Originally Posted by artb
The DeArmond model 1100 Adjustable Rhythm Chief, in gold, which is installed on your L-7, is one of the most desirable pickups of all time. Its market value is in the $1,000 USD range, exceeding even original PAF humbuckers in many cases.
Not bad for a tiny pup.
Just thought you should know that in case you didn't!
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rpguitar: Thanks for your pickup pleasant surprise info. I had a couple of the earlier larger DeArmond models long ago. When would this one be first available? artb.
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That couch is freaking me out.
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Originally Posted by teleboli
makes me dizzy.
Last edited by edh; 08-03-2014 at 12:39 AM.
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no problem for me with that nice clean couch and the fine photo of maybe the best of the older L5s. My unknown age L7 has old gold finished tuners that maybe were acquired same time as old pup? Or indicate a later model? Fit in original screw holes. artb.
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