1986 Gibson ES-175 with Mahogany back and sides

**skykomishone** · 06-01-2014, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by fritz jones

I think he means that spruce being coniferous or "softwood" means that it is a type of pine.

Yes, pine and spruce are both conifers, softwoods. Pine is pine. Spruce is spruce. Spruce is not a pine, nor is it a type of pine. It is in the family 'Pinus', just like a goat and a cow are both in the Bovine family. Frequently, bovine is used to refer to cows. I've not heard farmers call goats 'bovine', even though they're in the family Bovidae, right! I've owned goats, and I know that doesn't make me an expert, but I do have multiple degrees in science, including a Master's degree in Forestry, and years of experience in the field. I know what I'm talking about when I say a spruce is not a type of pine. You can take it or leave it. I've said enough.

**oldane** · 06-01-2014, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

I've never seen or heard of a pine archtop. It may have occurred, but I'm unaware of it.

In the beginning of the 1990s, Bob Bendetto built an archtop out of construction grade pine - flatsawn and complete with knots - just to show that it could play and sound as good as any archtop made from costly tone woods. It did sound and play like his other guitars. However, it's the only pine guitar I have seen.

**Jabberwocky** · 06-01-2014, 01:27 PM

Port Orford Cedar! African Mahogany! Grrr....

What is it like to date a forestry major?

**Jabberwocky** · 06-01-2014, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by oldane

In the beginning of the 1990s, Bob Bendetto built an archtop out of construction grade pine - flatsawn and complete with knots - just to show that it could play and sound as good as any archtop made from costly tone woods. It did sound and play like his other guitars. However, it's the only pine guitar I have seen.

I love what Bob did with this: Il Teredo | Benedetto Guitars .

Sadly, it will be forever out of my reach.

**PTChristopher2** · 06-01-2014, 05:10 PM

>>> I know what I'm talking about when I say a spruce is not a type of pine. You can take it or leave it. I've said enough.

I certainly believe you and appreciate the expert info. But you did say "Pinus" again.

Is a Tallywacker tree part of the Pinus family, or is it more closely related to the Johnson bush?

**Phil in London** · 06-01-2014, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher2

>>>
And how does one pronounce Pinus?

Pinus is a word of Latin origin and is pronounced (correctly) 'pee noos', with the emphasis on the first part.

I dont want to challenge those who are obviously educated in forestry, but could it be that the latin word Pinus denotes the pine tree type, while the (for an English as native language person almost unpronounceable) plural word Pinaceae denotes the (in categorisation superior) family of trees, which includes both Pinus and Picea (spruce)...?

**Phil in London** · 06-01-2014, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I love what Bob did with this: Il Teredo | Benedetto Guitars .

Sadly, it will be forever out of my reach.

what an amazing piece of craftsmanship / art. I wonder how it would sound like...? :-)

**Woody Sound** · 06-02-2014, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Part of my non-musical career was forestry, I love wood and trees, and especially guitars. Please forgive me if this seems like a lecture. It's not my intent. Thanks!

No at all, this is extremely informative. I've always wondered about the relationship between pine, spruce, and cedar. Thanks!

**PTChristopher2** · 06-02-2014, 09:47 AM

Indeed skykomishone - many thanks for the genuine expertise.

If you could maybe explain how cypress fits into all of this as well, that would be great.

Chris

**Jabberwocky** · 06-02-2014, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Phil in London

Pinus is a word of Latin origin and is pronounced (correctly) 'pee noos', with the emphasis on the first part...

Pinus up Uranus.

Pee Noos Up URE Aye Noos, mate.

Have at it. I'm game.

They do say The Pee-Nist in Australia.

**DRS** · 06-04-2014, 02:54 PM

Cat
Which is a type of chicken
At least it tastes that way smothered in sweet'n'sour sauce

**Broyale** · 06-04-2014, 03:30 PM

I'm curious about what difference that thin layer of maple or mahogany is supposed to make on the sound when there are multiple plywood pieces beneath it?

**GoergeBenson** · 06-06-2014, 05:44 AM

Its all talk though isn't it. I bought an all maple Es-175 from 96 and it was by far, the warmest sounding one I have played.

**Jabberwocky** · 06-06-2014, 05:58 AM

GB, Gibson stopped making all maple (sometimes Acer saccharum, sometimes Acer macrophyllum) ES-175s in about 1984 or so. Since then, all ES-175s have had mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) necks.

Even the "maple" ES-175s were not all maple. The centre layer of the laminate is poplar (Populus tremula).

I have a 2006 ES-175 Natural with P90s and if it doesn't sound good that's because I'm the tosser (Homo sapien emeticus).

**GoergeBenson** · 06-06-2014, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

GB, Gibson stopped making all maple (sometimes Acer saccharum, sometimes Acer macrophyllum) ES-175s in about 1984 or so. Since then, all ES-175s have had mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) necks.

Even the "maple" ES-175s were not all maple. The centre layer is poplar (Populus tremula).

I have a 2006 ES-175 Natural with P90s and if it doesn't sound good that's because I'm the tosser.

Alright tosser

I just meant that mine has a maple back/front/top as opposed to the mahogany variation and I don't think one can tell the difference, or claim there is one in tone/warmth.
On a laminate guitar, if you can tell the difference between spruce or maple on the top alone, your doing alright in my book :-))

Poplar? Just give em a chance to sneak in some filler and they'll take the whole bloody mile lol