Ibanez AF151 & Ibanez PM2--Finish aside, They appear to be the same?

[helios]

Has anyone tried or compared the Ibanez AF151 and/or the ibanez PM2? The specs are nearly identical.

AA Antique Amber

neck type	PM 3pc Mahogany/Maple set-in neck
body	Maple top/back/sides
fretboard	Bound Ebony fretboard w/Pearl & Abalone block inlay
fret	Medium frets w/Artstar fret edge treatment
number of frets	22 frets
bridge	ART-1 bridge
tailpiece	KT30 tailpiece
neck pu	Super 58 custom (H) neck pu
string	Flatwound strings
case/bag	Hardshell case included
Neck Dimensions	Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 57mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 22mm (at 9F) Radius 305mmR

Body Dimensions

a : Length 19 1/2" b : Width 15 3/4" c : Max Depth 3 5/8"

AWB Aged Whiskey Burst

neck type	Artstar 3pc Mahogany/Maple set-in neck
body	Flamed Maple top/back/sides
fretboard	Bound Ebony fretboard w/Pearl & Abalone block inlay
fret	Medium frets w/Artstar fret edge treatment
number of frets	20 frets
bridge	ART-W bridge
tailpiece	VT06S tailpiece
neck pu	Super 58 custom (H) neck pu
string	Flatwound strings
case/bag	Hardshell case included
Neck Dimensions	Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 56mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 22mm Radius 305mmR

Body Dimensions

a : Length 19 1/2" b : Width 15 3/4" c : Max Depth 3 5/8"

[helios]

One is Made in Ibanez Japan (PM). The other is Made in Ibanez China (Artstar).

Hello,
The PM2 and the PM200 are both made in Japan? I notice that the price of the PM200 is about 3X ($3000+) the the price of the PM2. The AF151 & PM2 are priced about the same (around $1000) . This would lead me to think that only the PM200 is made in Japan. Best wishes, Jeff

[Sonnyboy]

I would like to spend some time with them to find out!

[hslilly]

Noob here!

I once read that wood grain direction would suggest the 2nd guitar has less sustain. Which might be an advantage for some playing styles. Is that the consensus here? Bridge difference also would suggest longer sustain for the first guitar?

[helios]

Noob here!

I once read that wood grain direction would suggest the 2nd guitar has less sustain. Which might be an advantage for some playing styles. Is that the consensus here? Bridge difference also would suggest longer sustain for the first guitar?

Hello,
As both tops appear to be pressed maple laminates, the veneer grain direction shouldn't have much (if any) effect on the tone.
The wooden bridge would offer some acoustic timbers, but at a possible loss of intonation, and as you mention sustain. Be great to try them side by side, and to try the uber awesome appearing PM200 as well!

[dconeill]

The bodies appear to have been made in the same molds.

The obvious difference is that the PM-2 has 22 frets, while the AF151 has 20 frets. The scale lengths of the two guitars are identical. The result is that the pickup is a little farther from the nut on the PM-2 than on the AF151. Some people think that having the pickup at the PM-2's location is better sounding than having it further toward the nut. You decide. The PM-2 pickup placement is modeled ultimately after the Gibson ES175.

A cosmetic difference is that the AF151 has a flamed-maple top layer of plywood, while the PM-2 has plainer maple. I can't imagine that the difference in top laminate makes any difference at all in the sound of the guitar.

Another small difference is that the PM-2 has a tune-o-matic style bridge while the AF151 has a wooden bridge.

[helios]

Thanks-there seem to be plenty of AF-151's out there for sale, but not too many PM-2's. Also, no PM-2 demo videos.

[TH]

Different factories. Different guitars. There is no Ibanez factory, only a large number of factories scattered throughout Asia building instruments to specs supplied by Ibanez. Sometimes. Indonesia, China, Korea, Japan all make very different guitars, and some lines have different versions at different price points. In China there may be several factories that make a guitar during a single year or run; this accounts for the rising and falling quality as a factory gets really good at making a higher quality guitar and Ibanez moves to a cheaper factory when the first one puts a higher quality price line to Ibanez.
They are made to spec, the top ones made in Japan, the lower end may be made in Indonesia. I worked for them, I won't get into the differences in quality but suffice it to say, not the same guitar.
David

[joe tone]

Different factories. Different guitars. There is no Ibanez factory, only a large number of factories scattered throughout Asia building instruments to specs supplied by Ibanez. Sometimes. Indonesia, China, Korea, Japan all make very different guitars, and some lines have different versions at different price points. In China there may be several factories that make a guitar during a single year or run; this accounts for the rising and falling quality as a factory gets really good at making a higher quality guitar and Ibanez moves to a cheaper factory when the first one puts a higher quality price line to Ibanez.
They are made to spec, the top ones made in Japan, the lower end may be made in Indonesia. I worked for them, I won't get into the differences in quality but suffice it to say, not the same guitar.
David

which one is better quality?

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, I played both, and bought the PM2. You could have two PM2 guitars and still favour one over the other. I don't know what made the difference, but they definitely felt and sounded different.

I've made lots of PM2 videos, but I did change the pickup to a Harmonic Design Z90 single-coil in a humbucker case.

The original pickup was OK, I just prefer a little punch and clarity of the single coils.

[Rob MacKillop]

One big difference is the PM2 does not have a pick guard. I don't miss it, but some people might.

[Joe Weiss]

The AF 151 has just been discontinued. I picked one up from Sweetwater yesterday for $640 new with case and shipping. Don't pay the advertised price they have of $699. Call and negotiate. Everyone else is still selling this for $2-300.00 more

[GoergeBenson]

Actually as far as i can tell, the body design for these two guitars goes back to the early 80's.

The Ibanez FA-100 (es-175 dimensions), became the FG-100 then the FB-100 (B=birch both have the new slimmer body) all made in Japan.

Then came the JP-20 same body

All these guitars are essentially the same body (unless I've gone mad).

This body then turns up in the art core range as the Af151, and the Pm2

They've basically been using this slimmed down Es-175 body for years.

The FG-100, Fb-100, JP-20, PM-2/20, Artcore Af series.

[djelley]

I owned the AF151 and sent it back. It is nice enough, but just nothing special. I now have the PM2 and thought that it would basically be the same, but it isn't. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels, plays and sounds better. Seems like a better guitar - can't tell you why.

[Joe Weiss]

Just got an AF 151 a couple of weeks ago from Sweetwater. Excellent jazz box and the quality control at Ibanez is excellent. Finish and playability are flawless. The set-up by Sweetwater was lousy and the guitar was awful till I adjusted the neck and did my own set-up. Love this guitar.

[barricwiley]

They have them on sale now for $519 with 4 left. I did order one.

[Jim Soloway]

They have them on sale now for $519 with 4 left. I did order one.

I just ordered one as well as a replacement for my AFJ91. They actually have a bunch of them but only 4 can show on the web page at one time so there are lots more for anyone who wants one. It's should also be noted that this price includes the case which the prices for the Artcore Expressionist guitars don't so it's an even better deal than it appears.

[Wes Fan]

I just ordered one as well as a replacement for my AFJ91. They actually have a bunch of them but only 4 can show on the web page at one time so there are lots more for anyone who wants one. It's should also be noted that this price includes the case which the prices for the Artcore Expressionist guitars don't so it's an even better deal than it appears.

Just curious, Jim, as to why you want to replace the AFJ91 with this (albeit at a phenomenal sale price). Just as an appearance upgrade? Or do you prefer the ebony fingerboard?

[Jim Soloway]

Just curious, Jim, as to why you want to replace the AFJ91 with this (albeit at a phenomenal sale price). Just as an appearance upgrade? Or do you prefer the ebony fingerboard?

I actually prefer rosewood, so no it wasn't the fingerboard. It's all a bit complicated. I put the AJF91 up for sale locally a few weeks ago when I was having all back problems with my archtops. After struggling with both the AFJ91 and the Heritage I had decided that archtops really weren't for me after all. Then when the Heritage didn't sell I brought it back home and experimented with finding a more comfortable playing position. In the mean time, someone wanted to buy my AFJ91 and by the time I succeeded at adapting to the larger guitar, the AFJ91 was gone. I regretted the sale at the time but I felt morally obligated to go through with the sale and I've been looking for a practical replacement for the last couple days. Two days later, here is a chance to move from the AFJ91 to the ART-1 at almost no cost at all. So I guess it's all working out just fine.

[artcore]

Jim, I though you preferred a slightly wider neck on your guitars?...

[Rob MacKillop]

I played both the PM2 and the AF151 side by side in a guitar store in Edinburgh, and I can say that they definitely played and sounded different. I walked out with the PM2, which was definitely the better of THOSE two guitars. My understanding is that Ibanez guitars are made all over Asia, even the same model, with varying results. You'll never know it until you try it. Both, though, are great guitars for the money, even when full price.

[barricwiley]

Yes sir, hard to resist at that price for a nice guitar.
Sorry about the 91, but, you have a stand up character Jim, kudos to you.

[Jim Soloway]

Jim, I though you preferred a slightly wider neck on your guitars?...

I do but I'm not militant about it. I find that I can adjust to almost any neck size and shape if I'm willing. Plus, these guitars are never going to be a main player for me. I like longer scale lengths so I can tune down but I really have to have one guitar around that I can keep in standard tuning to use for teaching and doing tutorial demos. That's mostly what I used the 91 for and what I'll use the 151 for as well.

[Para]

I liked the AF151 more than the PM2, Here is my AF151 fitted with a classic '57 I prefer it to my LGB300.

[helios]

Hi Para,
Now that you've reversed the pickup on your AF-151, it's going to sound like a PM2! Jeff