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I have been looking into upgrades for my Epi Joe Pass. Anything to improve the sound (I know my fingers and technique will have the biggest effect). I am pretty happy with it now so any improvement will be a bonus. I have pretty much decided to swap the pups with Seth Lovers. The stock ones sound muddy and closed to me. I have read that the bridge can have a big effect on sound and was told by one person the stock one is crap, not sure if that is true. Epiphone lists the stock bridge as rosewood but mine doesn't look like rosewood at all either the color or grain. If I had to guess I would say it is Ebony. I am pretty sure it is stock because when I look at pictures of my guitar from that era (1994) it looks the same. I can get a replacement from Stewmac for $20 or what looks like a nicer one from Ultimaguitar for $65. One thing I read is that it is critical that the bridge fits precisely to the radius of the guitar top and this usually requires sanding it. The Stewmac bridge only contacts the guitar at either end with the middle portion being raised. I am not sure if this is good, bad or doesn't matter but the stock bridge and the one from Ultimaguitar contact the top along the full length of the bridge. Right now I am inclined to leave the stock one on because of the expense and trouble of fitting a new one. If there was information that told me it would sound better then I might consider it. As far as the tailpiece goes the stock one looks and feels really cheap. I am not sure if a more solid tailpiece would improve the sound. I found this one and have seen it on a Joe Pass and it does certainly look nicer:
Cast Open Harp Tailpiece Gold- for Full Sized Jazz Guitars
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07-14-2013 04:42 PM
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It might be dyed rosewood, not an uncommon practice. You may be able to get away with replacing just the top of the bridge if the posts are spaced the same (pretty good chance.) I believe you can get a Benedetto type wood tailpiece from StewMac, and the pickups are a good call. If you go with a total bridge replacement you will have to do fitting and that's really a pain.
It'll make a difference. Make sure you ground the strings if you go wooden tailpiece.
David
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David,
Are you saying that the upper part of the Stew-Mac bridge may fit the one he already has?
I might want to do that to my guitar.
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Yup. I've done that plenty. And since his bridge foot may be dyed rosewood, even if he have a rosewood bridge saddle, it's easy to dye that to match. Easier to go from brown to black than the other way.
Heh, if you can find someone with an Ibanez AF 105, they came stock with both wood and tune o matic saddles. Simple operation to just replace the saddles. Takes a few minutes and makes a huge difference.
DavidLast edited by TH; 07-14-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Ok, thanks.
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It's possible that the bridge on your guitar is a cheaper. softer wood that has been dyed to look like rosewood or ebony. That's fairly common.
Ebony bridges are usually a bit brighter than rosewood and because ebony is a bit denser, notes tend to "take off' quicker. In other words, the ebony responds faster than rosewood.
It's also common to find tailpieces made from "pot metal". A solid brass, steel or aluminum tailpiece will contribute to a better tone.
As far as bridge bases go, some contact the top of the guitar all along their width, while some are scooped in the middle and only contact the top at either side of the bridge. Experimenting with inexpensive bridges of each type will tell you which works best for your guitar. Then you can buy one really good one of the type you prefer.
Seating a bridge is a time consuming task but if you are patient you can do it yourself. Otherwise, take it to a reputable guitar technician.
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I was reading about the seating process and the way I understand it is you protect the guitar top with painters tape or something and then lay a piece of sandpaper upside down. Then you take the bridge and place it on the sandpaper and sand it down until it matches the top. I am guessing with hard woods such as rosewood and ebony it could take some time.
Originally Posted by monk
I think I am going to do the pickup upgrade and see how well it works. If it improves the sound as much as I hope I might be motivated to take on the bridge.
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That's exctly the tailpiece I put on my Epi JP (except in black) and it both sounds and looks much better. Originally Posted by jnbrown
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You need to check this guy out.
Archtop guitar bridges
Antonio is an AWESOME guy to work with.
'Mike
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That is the $65 one I mentioned. It looks like nice quality. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
Last edited by jnbrown; 07-15-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Can you explain how it sounds better? Originally Posted by mangotango
Did the mounting holes line with the existing holes in the guitar body?
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With the old tailpiece I used to get a background resonance all the time when I played - didn't like having to put a cloth under the t/p to mute that. This is much more solid and there's no "sprooooinnggggg!" when I hit a note. Originally Posted by jnbrown
No it doesn't quite line up perfectly but well enough to make it a viable change.
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Did you have to drill new holes or can I use the existing ones? Originally Posted by mangotango
I guess I can try the cloth first to see if I hear an improvement.
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I just fit a new bridge to the top of my Godin 5th Avenue using the Stewmac bridge fitting jig and it worked like a charm. I tried using the Frank Ford fitting method with a knife, but I just mucked it up and had to start over with a new bridge. It may work for some more handy luthier types, but for a hack like me, the jig was the only way to go. Stewmac even has video to show you how to do it.
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i've installed seth lovers and a bigsby b3 on my eastman T146 AND i've experimented with 2 different bridges:
a) the stock All Ebony bridge (no feet) just like the $65 Ebony model from Koentopp.
b) gretsch rocker bridge with Ebony base and feet. (purchased from link)
what i've found is that i prefer the all ebony bridge because the guitar is brighter, with more punch & note response, better note definition (no mud) especially on the low A and E strings. also, when playing acoustic, the guitar is much louder and full.
the rocker bridge seems to absorb a lot of the sound, high and low notes sound muddier. sustain might be slightly improved but at a cost of tone, high and low most notably.
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How do you like Seth Lovers compared to your previous pups? Originally Posted by J. Murrieta
I like the idea of ebony for better response and definition, but my guitar is already very bright.
Guess I will just have to try it and see.
Will be installing the Seths first and then evaluate where to go from there.
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It's traditional to install the bridge that matches the neck, i.e.: An ebony bridge for an ebony fretboard; a rosewood bridge for a rosewood fretboard, etc. Of course, there is no law against doing something different if it makes you want to play the guitar more.
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So.. tailpieces come in different lengths. Also, some are anchor the strings straight across and others are angled. It would seem, given my less-than-complete understanding of guitar physics, that only what happens between the bridge and the nut should matter and that length of the string between the bridge and tailpiece anchor point shouldn't matter. At least not in real world terms. However, seems like I saw somewhere that it is a consideration. Does anyone have insight into this?
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The longer the string between the bridge and tailpiece connection the more likely that area could start sympathetic vibration, ringing. Originally Posted by Spook410
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i love the seths! i bought the guitar used and it came with Harmonic Design Z90s. another great pickup, but the "lovers" really match the sound i'm after, surf jazz latin punk!
seths are VERY articulate, without being harsh, warm NOT muddy, well rounded and dynamic in all positions! never have i enjoyed using the middle position on any guitar as much as with seth. needless to say, the bridge and neck alone also sound great!
they sound great "overdriven" as well!
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Thanks looking forward to trying them. Originally Posted by J. Murrieta
Should be putting them in next week.
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Agree. It's easily handled by dampening that length of string. It can be done with almost anything - a shoelace, a leather band, a hankerchief woven between the strings. I use to sandwich the strings between a male and female strip of black velcro because it looks OK (if not great) . Originally Posted by docbop
Metal tailpieces also often vibrate sympthetically. In my experience, heavier brass tailpieces ring quite a lot while the most simple Gibson tailpiece (the one on say the ES125) is almost quiet.
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Just be careful not to rock the bridge as you sand. Keep it perpendicular to the top. Originally Posted by jnbrown
But a well seated bridge will definitely help things more than swapping one that isn't seated for another that isn't seated.
My newest project involves carving a one piece bridge from Honduran rosewood. It's gonna take a while. That stuff is HARD.
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So I installed the Seth Lovers.
I have not had much time on them yet but my initial impression is a substantial improvement in sound quality.
Notes are more clear, distinct and warm which is everything I thought it would and hoped it would be.
It was definitely worth the $85 in cost.
Being an engineer I had to do the install myself and read a lot on the web about it before proceeding.
It went pretty well but I did encounter a few problems:
I used aquarium type tubing (Home Depot) to attach to the pots.
It is kind of stiff and hard to feed in and out the holes.
Somehow when trying to put the pots back the tubing got crossed and and I had to disconnect it from one pot.
Next time I think I will use string or dental floss instead.
The screws that on the tail piece anchor didn't fit any of my philips head drivers very well and i almost stripped the head of one taking it out. One screw was very tight so once I had it out I decided to drill out the hole to a slightly larger size which helped and I had no problem putting them back in. I should probably replace them but not sure where to find this type of screw.
While I had the bridge off I looked at the bottom side of it which is bare wood and it does look like rosewood. I am still debating whether I should replace the bridge with a "better" one or change to Ebony. I am not sure why the stock bridge would be considered not good.
I am also still contemplating changing the tailpiece to a heavy cast metal one. It would look nicer but again I am not sure if there is anything wrong with the stock one or if the sound would improve.
I am wondering if I should change the bridge pickup. I know for jazz they are usually not used but I wonder if I could further improve the sound by using both pickups.
Finally I like the way the guitar looks better without the pick guard. I don't need the pick guard to protect the top but I know some people use as an anchor for their right hand. I have not figured out if I need an anchor or not.
There are some nice looking wood ones for about $30.
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