The 1934 L-12 Repair (Clip on pg 2)

[rpguitar]

For anyone who didn’t see the earlier thread, I bought a 1934 Gibson L-12 on Ebay in “as is” condition, having only grainy photos, a mysterious story, and a non-playing seller’s assessment to go by. But I bid low enough that I got the guitar for a very good price. I took it to Mandolin Brothers, whose repair shop said they couldn’t work on it because the job would be too tricky. Then I got in touch with a place they had recommended who could do that kind of work, and got a “worst case” quote of $1500 to fix it.

I also contacted a local repairperson and an archtop luthier who I know about the job, sending photos along for them to judge. From them, I got either no reply or a sense that the person wasn’t sure about how to do the work.

So what does a reasonable person do when faced with no help and a valuable, but broken, 80 year old guitar? DIY! That’s right, that person does it himself. I’m either brilliant or stupid, but regardless, I’m going to be resourceful and creative in the effort. So in the spirit of entertainment, I thought I would provide some in-progress narrative and photos regardless of the outcome. It may end in either triumph or tragedy!

First here’s a better photo (taken by me) of what was pictured on the Ebay auction. It shows the lower bass bout, where the top and back have separated from the rim for about 6 inches along the perimeter.


What it doesn’t show is WHY the top and back separated. It was the side’s fault. The water damage dissolved several areas of glue and allowed the pieces to separate. Left that way, the side buckled slightly outward so that it can’t just be pressed back into place, glued, and clamped. Over decades, the wood became very comfortable with its new position.

Here’s the back, which is the worst of it. The bottom part of this photo is towards the tailblock. Notice how the kerfing is still attached to the side near the block, but is separated from the back. Then as you move up along the edge, it’s the opposite – the kerfing becomes detached from the side, but is still glued to the back.



The top is, luckily, not as bad. The buckled side is not as pronounced there, and the kerfing remains attached only to the side, making it easier to clamp the top back down.



Here’s a shot of the interior showing the back and kerfing separation (top left).



I’ll follow up in the next post with the first steps in the process.

[rpguitar]

[Edit: The person I was responding to seems to have removed his post, but I'll leave my reply intact.] Thank you! I appreciate the advice and the reference. But I’m going to try this first on my own, and hand it to a pro only if my result is unsatisfactory. The top and back actually seem fine - it's the side that is distorted. Here’s the next installment:

Since I had several things that had to be glued and mated with each other, I had to determine the best sequence. Without the back of the guitar taken off, I had to limit my actions to what could be manipulated either through the (tiny) F-hole or from the outside. I decided that I would bend up a coat hanger, and start fiddling with the piece of split kerfing which couldn’t figure out if it wanted to be attached to the back or to the side.

I can’t show a photo of this, but when I poked it from the inside, the kerfing turned out to be mostly detached from the side, even where the two appeared to still be aligned. With the side having that distorted shape, I decided to see if I could press the kerfing down and glue it all to the back. The back is in fine shape (form-wise), so that seemed reasonable. Also, it would free up the side for the bending exercise yet to come.

I squeezed glue in from the outside, then pushed the kerfing down with my coat hanger. I then had no choice but to sit there, readjusting my arms ever so carefully, for 30 minutes while I pressed it!



After 30 minutes, I was able to jam the hanger in place – pressing the kerfing down – then clamp the bottom UP so that it pressed against the kerfing in the opposite direction.



Notice that (rectangular) spool clamp? I forgot to mention that I made 3 of those before I started from threaded rod, scrap wood, cork, and wingnuts/washers.

Meanwhile, I began thinking and researching how I was going to bend the small area of side back into something approximating its original shape. I came across an idea that I’ll reveal in the next post. But first, I made a handheld bending “jig.” I wrapped wet paper towel around a piece of trim and microwaved it for 20 seconds. That made it warm enough to bend it slightly against my kitchen counter. I screwed it to a couple of scrap wood “handles,” then glued cork to the surface to protect the guitar (against which it would eventually press).

[wintermoon]

sometimes when the sides pop out like that and have been exposed to moisture they can be very hard to push back w/out cracking and the only course of action is to remove the side from the end block, trim it and reglue.

I have an L-5 that needed this type of repair. the good part is the large L-5 tailpiece base covered most of the area where the sides meet @ the endblock. you don't have that luxury as the L-12 obviously has a small tailpiece base so you'd need to do a very clean trim of the side to make it look good.

[rpguitar]

Wintermoon, that's exactly what the Mando repairman told me. But I will either keep this guitar, or sell it with full disclosure of the work done. Here's the next bit:

It’s kind of hard to see, but the bottom kerfing is now glued to the back as best as I could accomplish given the physical limitations of a closed-up archtop guitar.


Next up was the biggest challenge yet: Attempting to reshape the side. Normally, you would bend the whole side (detached from the guitar) against a hot cylinder or form after wetting it. Obviously I had no such option. So I managed to Google a reference on bending wood with an electric heating pad, the kind used to soothe sore muscles. First I cut a washcloth down to size (sorry Dear) and soaked it with hot water, then squeezed it out partially. I placed it on the rim and covered it with plastic.



I removed the heating pad from its protective bag, folded it, and pressed it to the guitar with rubber bands.



I left it on there for about 20 minutes, and then pulled everything off. The wood was moderately hot and noticeably more pliable. I cradled the guitar in my lap so it was stable, grabbed my bending tool with a handle in each hand, and proceeded to press with a rocking motion along the profile of the side, focusing on the two spots where it was the most distorted (sorry no photo; I had my hands full). I did a good job with the most important part – the area that mates with the top – and a decent job on the bottom. There will always be a small area that juts out slightly. My main goal is to close up the box and get the top firmly attached, so I may have to live with that. I'm going for tone and playability over looks (have you seen the finish?! It's not exactly a runway model.)

[ooglybong]

Man, this is fascinating. You're quite the crafty fellow, and a braver man than I. Good for you!

I, too, have an old (1930s?) Gibson archtop in similar disarray, donated to me after being allegedly stored in a barn attic for many, many years (leaves included inside!), so I have a somewhat personal interest and connection to your story. However, mine's in much worse shape overall, "featuring" a 300% relic'ed body (!!!), five types of tuners, a super-worn fingerboard.... It has an interesting ornate, older-style Gibson headstock logo inlaid and 95% intact, too. Oh, yeah, also a single bridge pickup and a couple of black old-style 'radio' controls. (Plug it in and it actually still works, and very microphonic, too, as you might imagine.) Yeah, very, very old and vintage.

Anyway, some of your photos look a lot like mine, esp concerning the separated back and sides and kerfing, etc. complete with all the lacquer checking off in large waves right down to the wood. Oh, yeah. The back on mine also has a 25% split in the center back side, down near the tail end, but I think a knowledgeable tech could re-join the halves. But whadda I know?

Over the years, I've also taken it to a couple of shops only to get the same story that it's too much work (=$$$) to bother with. They've even kept it for a week to consult with their local luthier/tech. Oh, well. I've always been kind of disappointed with that answer; mine has no interesting provenance at all, but I've always felt that it was placed into my hands for a reason!

Thanks for the update. I look forward to further installments!

[Flat]

What a massively cool extended thread! Good luck with the project!

[Sam Sherry]

Roger --

I strongly recommend hide glue instead of carpenter's glue. If you have to re-do something, you will have a lot better chance at a second chance with hide. Always use the freshest stuff you can get.

If you're not comfortable brewing your own even the stuff from the hardware store is better than nothing.

+ + +

What are you planning for finish restoration?

[rpguitar]

Hi Les,

Man, I'm sure you're right about hide glue, and I did do much research on the subject. But I'm the type of craftsman for whom glue fails to stick no matter how much I handle the parts! So if I manage to force-f*** some tiny doodad into place, then by golly it means I meant to do so, and that thing had better stay put!!

Clearly I'm joking and I appreciate your wisdom. But failed glue joints are one reason I'm facing this mess. I opted for Titebond in hopes that the box will close up tight and stay that way.

I'll have another update soon. I had a setback; an interesting one mind you - more problems to solve - and I'll fill you in on how I'm handling that.

For finish, I'm just planning to spray lacquer over the area where the wood is raw. Otherwise I'll let this old girl tell her story with the original worn finish.

[rpguitar]

So it had all started out simply enough, but something had to go wrong. After I congratulated myself for making progress on bending the buckled side, I noticed this sitting inside the guitar.



Hey, what am I doing here all by myself? Who turned on the lights?!

The top kerfing, which I hadn't been able to see well before starting the repair, was not attached well. The heat and bending caused this section to dangle, then fall off. So I decided to bite the bullet, and get a closer look at the top kerfing. I split the binding at the tailblock (where the joint will be hidden by the tailpiece), and peeled it back.



Now one can see that there is no place to glue the top on over there... That will have to get taken care of. First I took advantage of the situation and glued the rest of the exposed kerfing back to the side. This was a blessing in disguise, as it was all compromised anyway and probably wouldn't have held up for long.

After it dried for a while, I had to figure out how in the world to get that chunk of kerfing back into place. First I reinforced the lining with a strip of paper, because it had already cracked once since being out of the guitar.



Now the tricky part: I used fishing line to tie a harness of sorts onto the kerfing, fed it through the F-hole, then up through the gap in the bottom (heavier twine is visible there, at the bottom of the photo). I placed a sheet of paper inside the guitar to protect from glue drippage, glued the kerfing strip, gently dropped it inside the guitar... and pulled it up into place!



The harness is tied to something over to the right, allowing the kerfing to sit tightly against the side while it sets. And now I have to wait at least 24 hours until it's safe to stress things a bit. So until then...

[vejesse]

If you insist on using Titebond I wouldn't use Titebond III. Much harder to separate the joint than with original Titebond. Better yet, repent NOW and start using granulated hide glue for the rest of this job. At this point consider taking the back off as the finish is so damaged anyway. If you can separate the yellow glue.

[Mark M.]

This is fascinating! Can't wait to see how it turns out!

[rpguitar]

At this point consider taking the back off as the finish is so damaged anyway.

I've learned in a short time that builders and repair persons have the same opinionated disagreements as guitar players. Shocking! I am more comfortable with the yellow glue and it clearly has a well established following. I am enough out of my element here that I don't need the additional challenge of making my own glue.

As for the finish, one man's damage is another man's mojo. The only part of the finish I'll be modifying are the raw wood surfaces, where the original finish literally disappeared under the influence of water. I would love to have the skills to remove the back, but frankly I don't think it was necessary. And I was scared to try and willing to admit it!

Anyway, tomorrow morning I'll be taking off the clamps and twine to see what my efforts have wrought. Cross your fingers.

[vejesse]

Well, if you've got lining hanging off the ribs as well as pieces floating around inside I think a lot of guys would consider opening the guitar if they took on this job. You're a genius if you can do all this through the F holes. And don't underestimate the strength and ease of use with cooked hide glue - it's no big deal to get used to and it's without a doubt the appropriate glue to use here. Titebond III is hard to undo.

[rpguitar]

Hi Jesse,

I was quoted over $1000 or "worst case" of $1500 for the job, so for that kind of money I expected the box to be opened up. I'm sure it would have been done really well, too. But I chose to learn something and save a bundle, while hopefully not ruining the instrument. Ironically, for the inevitable refret that's also coming, I will likely take it to someone. I am sure you are right about hide glue - its use was just not familiar to me, so I wanted to eliminate yet another variable.

I noticed you're in Madison, WI - which coincidentally is where this guitar supposedly rested for a very long time in the Police Dept's evidence locker before being bought at auction by the former owner. I'm still following up a lead to see if that story has any historical significance...

Meanwhile, here's the guitar as it lay this morning with twine in place, pulling in the side while clamps pressed the top and back to the kerfing.

[rpguitar]

This morning all of that stuff came off, and I glued the binding back in place. This is the same angle as the original Ebay photo. No more separation!



Its not factory perfect of course, but the box is firmly closed up and ready for action again.



Considering the condition it was in and the cost of this repair - about $12 - I am very happy! I have been playing it all day. Soundclips will be forthcoming at some point soon. I'm also going to brush some varnish on the raw wood over the next couple of days.

[JSanta]

Wow! Great job on this, looking forward to hearing how it sounds!

[Mark M.]

Amazing! Congratulations! You now have a fine and playable instrument with a great story. I'm impressed with your courage and persistance. Looking forward to the sound clips.

[SamBooka]

Yep... excellent repair skills.. next I should hope you are going to replace the missing headstocks on the guitars on your youtube page.

[floatingpickup]

Great job Roger! I look forward to hearing a sound clip.
Keith

[ooglybong]

Wow! What a journey. That final photo says it all. Congrats!

[zizala]

Very impressive!

Congrats on a successful and inventive save, Roger.

I'll be very interested to hear what you have to say about the sound after you've brought it back from its long sleep.

z

[rpguitar]

Thanks all for the moral support!

Zizala, the guitar is noticably louder, deeper, and more resonant with the box closed up (even with the relatively small gap that was previously there). I could tell it would do this before the repair; when I pressed things together the sound would immediately shoot out the front of the guitar. When I let go, the sound was weaker and more dispersed.

About the setup: Before the repair, the action was unplayable on the bass side. Now that the top is pressed back down, the bridge came down and the action was almost good enough. The bridge bass is not entirely symmetrical; the bass side is a little higher than the treble side. So I flipped the base around (it still conformed to the top just fine). The action is perfect on both sides now, but the thumbwheels are all the way down.

In a couple of weeks I'm going to bring it to get refretted and have things examined. I think the fretboard might benefit from slight planing. There are a couple of painfully low frets (somebody played lots of open position "A" chords). And the truss rod works, but the relief is still a tad much for my preference. We'll see if he can work these things out. Taller frets will certainly help.

As for sound, I'll let you hear for yourself eventually. Sure wish we had your '34 L-12 to compare with it! But there is indeed something special about these original 16" Gibsons. The way they were before they were designed to be bigger and louder was unique and great.

[SamBooka]

Are you considering a reset when you do the refret?

[rpguitar]

Hi Sam, I'd consider it at the advice of my repair person. Would like to avoid the expense, but also want the guitar to be totally kick ass - so will do it if necessary.

[wintermoon]

the refret should make up the difference of the action being a little high, though planing the board to remove the gouging might offset that. but I'd use a lower profile bridge or cut the original down a little before doing a neck reset, unless the neck joint is already loose.