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I've started a new thread for this.
I have just been belatedly informed by the maker,
the guitar they built for me is too big for the case.
In spite of the fact I specifically asked about the guitar case
before I placed the order, and they sent me photos of it.
So, this is just a heads-up to anyone else who has an i8-inch
on order with them, or is thinking of doing so.
I have just sent them a short, terse email to express my displeasure.
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05-08-2013 11:12 PM
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That does suck. What are they going to do? Ship the guitar wrapped in a sack and boxed? Can't they just buy an 18" case?
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Woody,
Just an update on that, as follows.
I got what seemed a slightly flustered explanation from them,
as to what happened.
The guitar I had built was with the crescent, or Florentine cutaway.
It looked normal in shape from the photos.
But the explanation was that the cutaway side was "too high" for their
stock 18" case. I take this to mean that the pointed end extended a bit
farther than it should have, so it wouldn't fit in the case.
It all sounds rather unlikely..
But looking at the pictures, it seems hard to
detect any over-long point to the tip of the cutaway. The photos are all
at an angle.
Anyway to cut to the chase, they are asking the case manufacturer to build
a case to fit.
Actually, I suspect that the case supplier simply had no 18" cases on hand.
I think the correct explanation would have been, "too wide" for their 17" cases. Duuhh....
I also am wondering what scale length the guitar has. When they baulked at doing
a 25.5" scale length, I settled for 25 inch. I hope they got that right.
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The Eastmans are built with a 25.5" scale, which I suspect are built in a nearby plant.
It won't do you any good at the moment but 18" cases, which btw are a very tough find, and expensive, are available for as low as $150 through Elderly. I prefer the case they have for $220... I happened upon the Elderly cases after spending many days on line searching for 18" cases that were below $500...the Elderly case, out of Canada, is the only one I found.
CANADIAN "SUPER JUMBO" GUITAR CASE - Elderly Instruments
ELITE "SUPER JUMBO" GUITAR CASE - Elderly Instruments
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No, Eastmans are 25".
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
WS
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
2born,
I believe you're right about the Eastmans, being built nearby. The Yunzhi Venetian cutaway seems to have that Eastman shape.
Speaking of the cases, good to know that Elderly can supply them. There is a guy in Australia that will custom build cases.
Including for big guitars, cellos, harps, accordions, you name it. He's the only one on this continent who does the hardshells. A case for this one probably would set me back $180.
But as you can imagine, I didn't want the guitar shipped without protection of a case.
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
That possibility crossed my mind, but with a 3" depth, I don't see how.
Unless they tried to put it in a case for a semi-acoustic.
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I assume the deal is that the guitar is delivered at the agreed price with the agreed specs and with a hard shell case? If so, it's the manufacturers responsability to find a case which fits - or have one made at his (the manufacturers) expense if necessary.
Quote from Bob Benedettos book 'Making an Archtop Guitar': 'If you encounter time or material loss while making an instrument, the loss is yours and not your customer's. Don't burden the customer with you problems.'
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Oldane,
I made sure about the case before I ordered the guitar.
I think Benedetto is logical in what he says.
It sounds like a situation where someone is being stupid and lazy,
which is not a good testimonal.
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You said
"But looking at the pictures, it seems hard to
detect any over-long point to the tip of the cutaway. The photos are all
at an angle.
Anyway to cut to the chase, they are asking the case manufacturer to build
a case to fit.
Actually, I suspect that the case supplier simply had no 18" cases on hand.
I think the correct explanation would have been, "too wide" for their 17" cases. Duuhh...."
Seems to me that you have no fact to substantiate any of your comments, you are just assuming.
You are frustrated and rightfully so. BUT the guitar has not shipped yet AND I am sure that Yunzhi will get their case supplier to get the case issue resolved. Who is your contact person at Yunzhi. Maybe you should have given them a little more time to SHOW YOU what they could do for you before crying here. I NEVER heard of anyone having an issue with Yunzhi that they could not resolve and I've directed a lot of folks their way.
I looked around and I didn't see a thread on the order or build part of your transaction, so could you bring me (and your audience here) up to speed. You ordered an 18 inch sharp cutaway archtop from them. Is that a solid carved top and back 18 inch guitar, did you ask for decent (premium) wood ?? I see it's got nice MOP block inlays. So what is this guitar costing you shipped ? My guess based on other orders I have seen is you are paying no more than about $1500.00 delivered. YES ??
SO, now that we've tossed that about. Can you post some other photos of the guitar, the back, neck and sides. I'm sure you got some decent wood from them to build this yes ?? Be patient, dealing with them is an interesting experience and in the end you're saving a fortune and getting a truly custom built guitar in the process. I mean if you wanted a totally hassle free deal you could buy from some custom builder or manufacturer here in the States, pay 3 times as much and wait a year to get it. Right ??Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 05-10-2013 at 07:56 AM.
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BigMike,
I could go to the trouble of forwarding the relevant emails.
This all surprised me. I didn't expect any problems.
I posted originally as a caution to others who may have been considering
an oversize archtop. I trust they won't have the same problem, but how would I know.
As I was saying, they told me the instrument wouldn't fit the case,
and even asked if it was okay to send the guitar without the case. From my
point of view that's not a good attitude.
Now, here's a quote from one of the emails:
"I'm very sorry for that, but the hard case nor fit because of the shape of the cutaway,
The Tip missing Angle cutaway have a little high than usual cutaway, so it can't fit."
so, check out the pics. I can't see anything wrong. If anyone else can, do let me know.
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By the way very nice wood. I might have been searching on posts by the wrong fellow. I did go to the Yunzhi site and I think I found the guitar you ordered (essentially, as anything you want changed they will endeavor to do for you, that's what's so nice about them).
Sharp cutaway handmade jazz guitar in 18inch, View jazz guitar, Product Details from Beijing Yunzhi Hengwei Music Instruments Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
In the past I have seen small squabbles come up with a custom order and Ms. Lora will endeavor to work it out in your favor. In your case it would be smart money to just tell her to have the case supplier build the case. It sure would not hurt if your guitar's finish were to have time to dry a little more before they ship it anyway. As you can see from the link THEY DO SELL 18 inch sharp cutaway arch tops with a case so let them get you one. Or you could negotiate with them for a reduced price on the guitar without a case and get one here in the States (you are in the States right ??). But I am sure they will get the case for you.
I believe that based on how they shipped my guitar you could get that 18 incher bubble wrapped and shipped in a box that they then encapsulate in styrofoam, and then wrap all that in this wide tape. That styrofoam shipping thing they shipped my guitar/case in was a monster. I searched for an old photo of me taking delivery of it but to no avail.
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Big Mike,
Always an unknown factor when ordering a guitar long distance.
I was encouraged to do so by comments on this forum, So was surprised by
the case problem. Doubly so when they wanted to ship sans case. Since I asked
for and received a photo of the 18" case.
But, I am impressed by your description of the packing they used for the one you ordered.
Had I known that earlier, I would have felt encouraged to just let them ship it without case.
Here in Melbourne Australia I can get a hardshell case custom made for maybe $180,
so no drama. In fact, partly fibreglass.
I noticed the same photos of the Florentine as you described, if I'm not mistaken.
They asked me about fingerboard inlays, color, and I provided a diagram of a custom
headstock inlay. (There was one little detail on that which they missed, but it would
evidently have taken a lot of trouble to rectify it.)
Scale length....They didn't want to attempt 25.5, but my contact (Ms. Gang) got her
arithmetic wrong on the metric conversion. I set her straight, but added that if they didn't
do 25.5 could they do 25. But looking back, I suspect they can easily do 25.5 length.
Anyway, apart from my customised headstock and simple block inlays,
my assumption was they would use their standard 18" Florentine. And so after it's built,
the case doesn't fit?? That does not compute.
I appreciate what you mentioned about price comparison. It's a big factor in their favor,
much the same with independent luthiers here as it would be in the States.
One aside...The knurled thumbwheels on the pickguard look very interesting.
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I reached out to Ms Lora Yu for you. I included a link to this thread. I was pretty sure it wasn't her that was telling you this about the case. Ms. Lora is really on the ball and maybe can assist you in getting a case or getting you some discount and assurance they will pack the guitar well in bubble wrap and then a box and then in that incredibly ungreen styrofoam thing they do. My wife wanted to turn the box into a wading pool for our chickens. LOL.
Well if you can get a case made there that is great. As I have told countless people when looking at Eastman and Yunzhi guitars - you get a great deal, with Yunzhi a screaming good deal, but you gotta be cool and expect a few little bumps along the way. And when you get the guitar replace the electronics. I have a really early Eastman AR810 prototype, must have been one of the first 10-15 guitars they made. I had new wiring and an older Benedetto floating pickup installed on it. This was back when Eastman and Yunzhi were one entity (two partners that went separate ways: one maintaining the Eastman network, one going independent and dealing directly as Yunzhi with the customers at lower prices). It's one of the finest gutiars I have ever owned. And I have had my share of old 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s Gibson archtops. This thingis amazing... As is my YZ23 that I got thru Ms. Lora at Yunzhi. I've also owned other Yunzhi gutiars that I bought used from people in the States. All really fine and top flight archtops.
So my friend be patient and of good cheer, this stuff will all get worked out. You're like an expectant father, and on edge a little. Why not ?? But make this experience less stressful, more fun. It will be once you start playing this thing. My little YZ23 is so loud, and it's a 2 1/2 inch thick 16 inch archtop. Can't imagine what an 18 inch will sound like. You may find the acoustic properties more than loud enough to gig with.
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 05-10-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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Big Mike,
After all that I forgot the one important point, Ms. Gang tells me
they have undertaken to make a custom case for the instrument.
When I got that slightly flustered email I quoted earlier from Zoey Gang,
I thought something like,
"Oh, this lady is caught in the middle. Don't get too grumpy with her".
I think somebody goofed, such as trying to put it in a 17" case or a
semi-acoustic case. Since I can't see anything wrong with the guitar.
If it was a deeper body, maybe.
Also, thank you muchly for drawing this to the attention of Ms. Lora, who I
assume is one of their senior persons. I am guessing the case problem
will get sorted out.
I play big band rhythm, and have wanted an 18 for some time that I could
use in public. I generally add transducers and blend it with the magnetic.
My current "beast" is a 50s era Maton, 17'5" by 3.5" size. A story with that one,
when the old case wore out I had one custom built, and it took THREE attempts
to get it right. Length, depth and width were fine, but the curves were wrongly
composed. So I've been this road before.
So, the Yunzhi is going to be compared to an instrument with which I have rattled
windows.
And the Maton? They don't make 'em like this now, check out the transducer wires
sneaking from the bridge under the pickguard.
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Good it sounds like it's gonna get itself worked out fine then.
And with a custom built guitar I would think it wise to have THEM build the case or you take the guitar once in hand to a store and hand fit the guitar in a case yourself until you find one that meets all requirements. I'm sure that is safest. But like I said give Yunzhi time to square it away. I have seen Ms. Lora move mountains for the customer, I am sur Ms Zoey will take care of you without Ms Lora's guidance now that I hear this recent update of yours...
Laugh at yourself a little my friend. Like any guy ordering a guitar you are like a nervous expectant father, pretty soon you'll have the guitar and we won't see you for a long time, you'll be playing. Speaking of that I'm gonna go get a shower and sit on the porch with my YZ23. Here's a shot of it and my AR880 which I sold. I got the Yunzhi and like it's acoustic tone more than the Eastman.
Mike
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Hey Big Mike! Is that your former Mel Bay Pisano that's been on feebay for months now? It's a shame Mel saw fit to go and stencil that guitar right on the fretboard...what on earth was he thinkin'!?
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Yeah that is the old Pisano on eBay. And you got it right it IS a stencil, not an inlay. I think Eastman presented the guitar to Mel Bay Productions (since Mel has long passed away) since John Pisano had one of his cds on MelBay Productions cd label.
That is one very sweet guitar, as is the YZ23. The wood on that JP880 is really really nice. That's a NAMM guitar and a real beauty. Any decent tech could probably rub out that stencil with some 0000 steel wool. It never bothered me... A steal at it's current price. You see the other AR880s on the bay right now ?? It is clean as a cat's as* got a really nice easy neck.
Mike
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That's funny. Folks here are talking about 18" guitar cases like they grow on trees and are plentifully available everywhere. Fact is they aren't. I spent 2 days on the internet trying to track down a moderately priced 18" case...even those at $500 and above are like searching for a needle in a haystack.
Reality check here folks!
And speaking of shapes. Yunzhi's shape for that 18" florentine looks awfully close to the shape Heritage uses on their 18" florentine. And not to sound critical but for my tastes the first changes I'd make to the Yunzhi is to swap out that metal tailpiece with the wood cover...for it doesn't appear as ebony...and having had 10 eastman's I've seen enough of them...I'd toss that tailpiece for a solid ebony tailpiece from Buscarino, in addition to having Ultima in Des Moines make a bridge for it...now you'd be cookin' with Dash, as they used to say back in the day!
http://www.ultimaguitar.com/archtopbridge.htm
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 05-10-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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2born, Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
That's funny. Folks here are talking about 18" guitar cases like they grow on trees and are plentifully available everywhere. Fact is they aren't. I spent 2 days on the internet trying to track down a moderately priced 18" case...even those at $500 and above are like searching for a needle in a haystack.
Reality check here folks!
I never needed to look for an oversize case until I had to replace a worn-out one, about eight years ago. I only found
the man thanks to a luthier. As it turns out, he is the ONLY guy in all of Australia who'll make a custom hardshell at a reasonable price. Big contrast to the footlocker-style ones that run from 350 to 550.
I suppose it's not until you need one that you find it the hard way. This guy doesn't use a website, just works from his garage. Word gets around, it seems.
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You're working with a factory. Not Guitar Center. Yunzhi is probably the best guitar deal on the planet and both Zoey and Lora work hard to resolve any issues that might arise. They are currently re-working the burst on my 18" because the color was off. No charge. No complaints. Calling them "lazy and stupid" because they happen to share an issue, which they are resolving, is not only unjustified but way over the top. I suggest you work with a retailer if you find their process too challenging.
Last edited by Spook410; 05-11-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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Spook,
I don't think those two persons are either of those things.
Ms. Gang is caught in the middle, and I was polite to her.
But somebody else there doesn't seem to have their brain in gear.
Being told that their case doesn't fit (after I checked, before placing
the order) simply did not impress me.
If it happened to you, what would your reaction be?
Guitar Center is in North America and I'm not, by the way.
There are certain name brands which they will not sell overseas.
Bearing that in mind, they have nothing which interests me.
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Ah, so the ARE solving this problem then. I do believe that it's not easy to find ready made cases for guitars bigger than 17''. However, one can have one made to specs and that's what they are doing. In hindsight, maybe they should not have told you about the case issue - they should just have solved it quietly - now that it made you so upset. I'm shure they'll learn from a case like this (no pun intended) like you do. Originally Posted by MaxT
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Oldane,
The reason I originally raised the issue here was in case other people
were contemplating an 18" guitar.
I could get a case made here, but shipping it without a case didn't seem
like a good idea. Especially since I checked all this before I ordered, and based
my plans on the guitar being sent in a case.
I once received a new guitar shipped interstate, within Australia.
Two fine hairline cracks in the back of the neck, at the joins.
Of course I got a refund, but in the case of Yunzhi we're talking about
a major distance.
I've worked in a parcels centre in the past, I know how things get thrown
around. Nobody wants to ship a damaged guitar back, especially all the
way across the Pacific.
But that said, BigMikeinNJ has since described how they packed one sent to
him, sans case. It sounded pretty good.
Just to reiterate, my original intent was to let other prospective buyers
know what they could be in for. I've never dealt with Yunzhi before.
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It's cool Max. This is a new experience for you, and you're not the first to vent anxiety on a forum board.
Just keep in mind much can get lost in the language barrier and in translation. Speaking for myself, Lora's English is far superior to my Chinese.
Had you checked out the website thoroughly you'd likely have come across several packing photos. I've seen several photos and there's no doubt I've never seen any guitar packed as good as Yunzhi does. Some folks on this side of the pond could take packing lessons from them.
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