Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 12:00 PM

I'm considering trading my 2011 Gibson ES137 for a D'angelico EXL-1 but I'm having trouble authenticating the D'angelico. The guy I'm trading with doesn't seem to know much about it. It's a EXL-1 and the serial number is L50510600712.

Does anyone know where I can search the serial number. There are so many versions of D'angelico's - Japanese Korean, Vestax, etc. I don't know if I'm making a good trade or not. If it's a Vestax D'angelico, then it's probably a good deal, if it's a later Korean model, it's most likely not a good deal.

Can anyone help?

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 12:35 PM

I've owned 4 EXL-1's. My current is a 1SH which has a TEN digit serial number beginning with the letter K on the D'A made in INCHON stamp. There are no serial number or other stamps on the exterior of the guitar.

You could call the D'A distributor in New Jersey and perhaps they could give you some insight on dating a Korean D'A, which the archtop you've mentioned is. The distributor still has a presence on ebay with some remaining stock, although it's my understanding there were no Korean models produced after 2010.

The Japanese models were previously distributed by Vestax....Vestax didn't make anything. And the Vestax models are designated as NYL2, NYL4, NYL5, etc. You'd recognize a Japanese model by the diamond shaped tailpiece in the natural NYL2 guitar below. The other one is my current EXL-1SH. The EXL-1 should have the identical tailpiece but with a floating pup instead of the single route pup in my guitar. Sorry I can't be of more help...I've never had no interest in dating a Korean model for in my experience they're all great guitars.

The EXL-1 will be immediately recognizable by it's top brown headstock shade surrounding the Excel key shaped logo. And like my current EXL-1SH the EXL-1 is also a 17" guitar.

Archtops in order below are the EXL-1SH (korean), and Japanese NYL2 and NYL4 models...note the tailpiece difference.

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 12:58 PM

Thanks 2bornot2bop, lots of useful info.

I guess my other question is regarding the tailpiece and headstock insignia. The tailpiece has the New Yorker-style diamond (like in the last 2 pictures you posted) but the headstock has the Excel insignia. I haven't come across this combination in any of the images I've seen of D'angelico's. (sorry, I can't make the picture larger)

Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1-dangelico-jpg

Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1-dangelico-jpg

The current owner (the guy in the picture) also told me it's "about 10 years old" but doesn't knwo the exact age.

So, in your opinion, is this a good trade?

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 01:01 PM

Thanks 2bornot2bop, lots of useful info.

I guess my other question is regarding the tailpiece and headstock insignia. The tailpiece has the New Yorker-style diamond (like in the last 2 pictures you posted) but the headstock has the Excel insignia. I haven't come across this combination in any of the images I've seen of D'angelico's. (sorry, I can't make the picture larger). The current owner (the guy in the picture) also told me it's "about 10 years old" but doesn't knwo the exact age.

So, in your opinion, is this a good trade?

Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1-dangelico-jpg

**peejay** · 04-02-2013, 01:43 PM

See this previous post on this subject :

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...te-vestax.html

I have a Korean Samick EXL-1 and the label gives the s/n as KS0510 (which I believe translates to Oct. 2005) and followed by another 5 digits which is the actual s./n

Here in the UK the Korean models sell for £ 600-£700, while the Japanese Vestax go for £3k or more. Personally I can't either see or hear any difference between the two except cosmetic issues like the tailpiece. No doubt some will disagree !

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

Thanks 2bornot2bop, lots of useful info.

I guess my other question is regarding the tailpiece and headstock insignia. The tailpiece has the New Yorker-style diamond (like in the last 2 pictures you posted) but the headstock has the Excel insignia. I haven't come across this combination in any of the images I've seen of D'angelico's. (sorry, I can't make the picture larger). The current owner (the guy in the picture) also told me it's "about 10 years old" but doesn't knwo the exact age.

So, in your opinion, is this a good trade?

Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1-dangelico-jpg

To the best of my knowledge the Korean guitars were made after 2005, at a first batch of 200. I wonder if the guitar you've displayed is a Japanese version...which would also be odd since I've never seen a Japanese version D'A with that headstock inlay. But that's insignificant really for MIK or Japanese models are both EXCELLENT buys.

Against a Gibson ES-137, I'd have to say hands down take the D'A! Have you played the owner's guitar?

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 02:34 PM

So, if the model I'm looking to trade for runs approximately $1,000.00 (at least they are on ebay) and my Gibson typically sells used around the $1,500 range, then maybe it's not such a great deal. Unless you think the D'angelico's are undervalued or the Gibson overvalued? Or if the D'angelico is indeed one of the Vestax guitars?

This is what I'm trying to get some clarity on. It's so confusing (sigh!).

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 02:44 PM

Thanks again 2bornot2bop.

My gut reaction was to do the deal. My only concern was that Korean D'A's sell used on ebay on the $1,000 range and the ES-137 woud go in the $1,500 range. The Japanese D'A's however sell in the $3,000 - $4,000 range. So that's where my confusion set in.

No, I heven't played the guys guitar yet. I'm meeting him next Monday evening at a local club.

**rpguitar** · 04-02-2013, 03:52 PM

From a "which guitar would you rather have" perspective, I'd choose the EXL-1 over an ES-137, but that's because I'm a jazz guy.

From a money perspective, and based on the desirability of each instrument on the overall guitar market, I think it's less of an even trade. The Korean D'A models were blown out for only $800 in 2006. That included the "limited to 200" EXL-1DP as well as the more plain EXL-1 and EXL-1SH.

For fun, here's the original thread on Usenet:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...zz/F-6JQr1GSDQ

That $800 price has stuck with the market's collective memory to some extent, despite the fact that the guitars were later priced at around $1500 new. I think a MIK Excel can be had for shy of $1000 if one simply hunts for a bit.

The tailpiece and Excel headstock logo are exactly what adorns the MIK guitars. That's not sounding the least bit fishy or rare or anything else "exciting" to me. Sounds like... a MIK Excel.

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

So, if the model I'm looking to trade for runs approximately $1,000.00 (at least they are on ebay) and my Gibson typically sells used around the $1,500 range, then maybe it's not such a great deal. Unless you think the D'angelico's are undervalued or the Gibson overvalued? Or if the D'angelico is indeed one of the Vestax guitars?

This is what I'm trying to get some clarity on. It's so confusing (sigh!).

I understand your confusion. I'm confused too...but mainly by the fact I've never seen an Excel headstock on a Japanese version D'A, and I've definitely never seen a more expensive diamond style D'A tailpiece on a MIK D'A!

First question I'd have, is the tailpiece a swap? Likely not...but then again, the serial number is several digits longer than any MIK I've had, so the BIG question is IS his guitar a Japanese or MIK version...If it's an EXL-1 model that would suggest a MIK model name...and where on the guitar does tell you the model number? It should be written on the bass side f-hole tag...if it still has a tag...on that tag it will say MADE IN INCHON for MIK D'A's...can't wait to hear back on this one.

But at any rate, to cost...the MIK D'A's sold at $1800 street for several years. Lou of guitar's 'n jazz of New Jersey sold tons of them, as did Jeff Hale in Wisconsin, at the $1800 price. It wasn't until 8 months or so ago did the MIK distributor begin blowing out remaining inventory at ridiculous prices...since that inventory is basically now all gone, for the jazz archtops anyway, I'd say a D'A with a more expensive diamond style tailpiece is more than worth $1400 even for a MIK archtop...WHY? Because I just paid $1050 for used EXL-1SH...and I'M CHEAP!!! but I bought it because I've recently acquired a passion for single humbucker jazz archtops and I'd never seen a 1SH beyond Roger's...These MIK guitars don't get the love on this website as they should, IMO, for not many have tried them and even less have owned them...they were underpriced to begin with...At $1800 they played as well as a few $6k (retail) archtops I've owned.

Play it...trade for it...you should hear and feel a nice difference from the '137. You can buy a MIK EXL-1DP bling model on feebay currently advertised for $1k...and that archtop is a steal...but I'm done with floaters and don't need to hoard more archtops...okay, you know what I know!

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

From a "which guitar would you rather have" perspective, I'd choose the EXL-1 over an ES-137, but that's because I'm a jazz guy.

From a money perspective, and based on the desirability of each instrument on the overall guitar market, I think it's less of an even trade. The Korean D'A models were blown out for only $800 in 2006. That included the "limited to 200" EXL-1DP as well as the more plain EXL-1 and EXL-1SH.

For fun, here's the original thread on Usenet:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...zz/F-6JQr1GSDQ

That $800 price has stuck with the market's collective memory to some extent, despite the fact that the guitars were later priced at around $1500 new. I think a MIK Excel can be had for shy of $1000 if one simply hunts for a bit.

The tailpiece and Excel headstock logo are exactly what adorns the MIK guitars. That's not sounding the least bit fishy or rare or anything else "exciting" to me. Sounds like... a MIK Excel.

What are you sayin' RP? Have you seen a diamond tailpiece on a MIK Excel prior to the OP's posted pic?

I'd agree, there is a collective memory of these D'A's having blown out for stupid prices. BUT...that blow out is done, and NOW used inventory of these guitars is slim and prices are goin' UP not DOWN...I just paid $1050 delivered for one of your old EXL-1SH's....because they're found NOWHERE...that and I was curious...of course...who dis!

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

The Japanese D'A's however sell in the $3,000 - $4,000 range. So that's where my confusion set in.

Asking prices for Japanese NYL2's seem to be hovering between $2500 -$3500 for used ads I've seen and I've seen a few new guitars listed above $4k.

But a used archtop is a used archtop. I bought a used NYL4, an 18" version of the 17" NYL2 Japanese model, from a DEALER on G-Base who couldn't unload his guitar for $2500...I bought it for $2200.

I paid $1700 for a NYL2 in natural and $1800 for an NYL2 in blue...told you I'm cheap...both those buys from craigs...they're out there...as to ebay asking prices....it's ebay...you'll find ridiculous asking prices from sellers fishing to find a fool....i.e., the guy whose listed his NYL2 for $3800 for close to a year now....end rant.

**jakeyboy1216** · 04-02-2013, 04:21 PM

Thanks for all the help 2born. I guess the bottom line is meet the guy, play the guitar and if I like it, make the trade. I don't know where he got the serial number from, i just assumed it was from the inside of the f-hole. I'll let you know what else it says. I also asked the current owner if he's made any alterations to the guitar - like swapping the tailpiece - but he said he hadn't.

I agree with you that RP is incorrect about the diamond tailpiece on a MIK. I've never seen that either.

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

Thanks for all the help 2born. I guess the bottom line is meet the guy, play the guitar and if I like it, make the trade. I don't know where he got the serial number from, i just assumed it was from the inside of the f-hole. I'll let you know what else it says. I also asked the current owner if he's made any alterations to the guitar - like swapping the tailpiece - but he said he hadn't.

I agree with you that RP is incorrect about the diamond tailpiece on a MIK. I've never seen that either.

okay, so there's a BIG story surrounding that tailpiece on that guitar...if there's a MIK D'A sticker in the f-hole that would suggest someone changed that tailpiece.

2b's itchin' to learn more about that guitar..........

**DRS** · 04-02-2013, 05:37 PM

"The guy doesn't know much about it."
Yet he knows enough that he thinks it's a good trade for an Es137.
I always find that when a guy says he doesn't know much about something, he knows a lot more than you think.
I suspect if it was a Japanese DA, he'd know it and want your ES 137+ $$$.

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by DRS

"The guy doesn't know much about it."
Yet he knows enough that he thinks it's a good trade for an Es137.
I always find that when a guy says he doesn't know much about something, he knows a lot more than you think.
I suspect if it was a Japanese DA, he'd know it and want your ES 137+ $$$.

Well, that's the big mystery, at least to me. The tailpiece speaks Japan, but the headstock says MIK...there's an untold story there some where.

Having owned both the MIK and the Japanese NYL2's I don't mind saying the two guitars are very close in playability, and the edge going to the New Yorker models in finish...the ebony on the NY'er fretboard will be jet black as opposed to the lighter shade on the MIK...which to my estimation is a very under rated under the radar guitar...I prefer them to carved Eastmans...as a personal preference...this lil' '1SH of mine even has acoustic tone to rival a carved top and RP will be the first to tell you, it's a laminate through and through...go figure!

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

duhhhh...okay I didn't look close enough to that pic before. That's a MIK with a tailpiece swap. I'm identifying it as a MIK for 2 reasons. First, the shade...the Japanese NYL2 is a more traditional sunburst w/o the orangeish burst...and more importantly the MIK D'A's have no cupid's bow at the end of the fretboard...they're all chopped off like the board in the pic...AND the NYer's all have a cupid's bow like the pics I posted...my old eyes are starting to go...5 years ago I'd have noticed that right away....and besides, only the reissue MIK's have a brown headstock...as in this pic...in addition, the NYer's all have a wider pick guard than the MIK D'A...and the pickguard on the NY'er's is very dark...the MIK D'A has a tortoise shell appearance to the pickguard...so I'm bettin' my retirement check this guitar is a MIK with a tailpiece change...perhaps the owner is a 2nd owner and simply knew nothing about the prior owner doing the swap, is what I'm betting.

**teleman3726** · 04-02-2013, 08:27 PM

That's a Korean D'A.
My guess it's worth between $600 and $900.
FWIW

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by teleman3726

That's a Korean D'A.
My guess it's worth between $600 and $900.
FWIW

$600 huh...have you owned one?

**teleman3726** · 04-02-2013, 10:13 PM

Yea, I have. And I sold it last summer. AH

**GNAPPI** · 04-02-2013, 10:38 PM

I have an EXS-1DH and an ES-137 custom. They're VERY different guitars in feel and sound.

I won't be able to tell you whether the trade would be a good one for you based on "value" because by today's EBAY sale prices on the 137 standard models are better than recent sales of D'A guitars. But, the D'Angelico is IMO (The Korean made models) a nicer guitar in every respect than the 137.

I agree completely with 2bornot2bop's comment"

"These MIK guitars don't get the love on this website as they should, IMO, for not many have tried them and even less have owned them...they were underpriced to begin with...At $1800 they played as well as a few $6k (retail) archtops I've owned. "

It's funny that lesser Korean and Chinese guitars get praise lavished on them :-)

I'm going through a similar issue with an EX-DC I think I'm going to get it instead of a 335 as funds come available. One thing is certain, there will always be 137's (and 335's) available but there will probably be few DA's available in the near future.

Good luck with your decision.

**2bornot2bop** · 04-02-2013, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by teleman3726

Yea, I have. And I sold it last summer. AH

great. if you sold it for $600 you sold it too cheap...imo. In 3 years I've been tracking these the least I've seen an EXL-1DP go for in this past year was $750, and that was 6 months ago while the NJ distributor was blowing out the remaining inventory over a 4 month period.

I had a pair of NYL2's in house with an EXL-1...there wasn't a lot of difference in tone between them...but then again my EXL-1 had a pickup upgrade.

Gnappi I think that would be a smart move to snap that model up as they're not producing any more of them.

**2bornot2bop** · 04-03-2013, 06:43 AM

This forum is no place to establish the value of an excel for very few have any experience with one. Suggesting no one would offer $600 for an exl-1 here establishes nothing. IMO. Why lowball the guy with a ridiculous offer and waste his time. Respect between both parties goes a long way in any transaction.

**rpguitar** · 04-03-2013, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1216

I agree with you that RP is incorrect about the diamond tailpiece on a MIK. I've never seen that either.

Harumph, yes - you are right. Sorry about that. I had a look at old pics of my D'As (I owned 3, hardly 2b's harem but still a decent sample!). I do have some lingering love for them. I should've kept the original SH or DP.

The trade for an ES-137 might not be a dead on even value trade, but it would be an easy way to move to a nice archtop guitar. I hope it works out for you.

**teleman3726** · 04-03-2013, 08:01 AM

I didn't sell it for $600 so your assumption is wrong. But it was sold for less than I paid because the tailpiece was defective, which is a problem with some of the MIK. The alloy used doesn't hold up to more than 12's.
In any event, since you're pumped on these guitars, they are good for the price, I agree. The neck on the D'A I had was really good. The ebony fretboard was nice too.
But the pup on it wasn't the greatest (you'll agree) and I'm not too keen on laminates (just a preference).
So make the trade and buy the one you want.
You don't need us to decide for you, right?