Help authenticating a D'angelico EXL-1

[teleman3726]

jakeyboy1216, here's an idea. Why not sell your 2011 Gibson ES-137 and with the cash in hand negotiate to buy the MIK D'Ange EXL-1? After all, cash is king. And with cash in hand, you will be in a far better negotiating position with the seller. You will also find out, for sure, how much cash the seller wants for his EXL-1.

Despite all the love for the EXL-1, I don't think you are making a particularly good trade. You are getting 50cents on the dollar for your ES-137. Not that the EXL-1 is not a fine-playing guitar. And I am not a cynic.

I don't think anyone would pony up more than $600 for the EXL-1 right now if someone offered it up for sale right here.

*DRS is right on. The seller knows more than he is letting on. The only reason he wants to do a direct guitar for guitar trade is because he knows he can flip the ES-137 for more than he can the EXL-1. Turn the table around on him. Tell him EXL-1 plus $900 to $1000 cash for your ES-137. See what his reaction is. Won't be too keen now, I gather. Then again, wasn't there a story about a man who bartered a paper-clip into a house eventually?

Here it is: One red paperclip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

One could also go the other way...

I think Jab's got the right approach here. And all these questions about authentication probably mask other items - from both sides.
Have a look at what D'A's of this sort are selling on Ebay (it's an OK proxy).

[teleman3726]

This forum is no place to establish the value of an excel for very few have any experience with one. Suggesting no one would offer $600 for an exl-1 here establishes nothing. IMO. Why lowball the guy with a ridiculous offer and waste his time. Respect between both parties goes a long way in any transaction.

Then make the trade and be done with it!

[jakeyboy1216]

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I have solved at least one part of the mystery regarding the mismatched tailpiece and headstock logo. Here's an email I received last night from Dave at D'angelico guitars. I figured I would get it straight from the horse's mouth:

"Thank you for contacting D'Angelico Guitars! The guitar in question was made in 2008 in Korea. From what I can tell in the photo it looks like the tailpiece might have replaced at some point which is common for that production run as some of them break over time however the rest of it appears stock. That is about all I can tell from the photo but if you have any more questions please let us know. Thank you!

Dave Wise
[email protected]
732-662-1912"

So it looks like many of you are correct - it is a Korean made guitar that has had the tailpiece swapped out. I also think that the owner probaly knew it and replaced it with the more valuable New Yorker-style to try and pass it off as a Vestax model.

Anyway, I'm not going to do the deal. I don't think it's an even value trade and I have some concerns about the current owner. There are just too many questions about the D'A - was there something more to the problem with the tailpiece? The guy also told me he thought the guitar was about 10 years old.

I would still like to get my hands on a D'A as I think they are great value in an archtop, just not this particular guitar.
Thanks again everyone for your input.

[2bornot2bop]

Harumph, yes - you are right. Sorry about that. I had a look at old pics of my D'As (I owned 3, hardly 2b's harem but still a decent sample!).

Actually we're even for one of the 4 I've owned was your beautiful wine red D'A...which I should have kept myself - Oh darn, I just acquired my 5th in the 1SH...okay so I'm one up on you.

I didn't sell it for $600 so your assumption is wrong. But it was sold for less than I paid because the tailpiece was defective, which is a problem with some of the MIK. The alloy used doesn't hold up to more than 12's.
In any event, since you're pumped on these guitars, they are good for the price, I agree. The neck on the D'A I had was really good. The ebony fretboard was nice too.
But the pup on it wasn't the greatest (you'll agree) and I'm not too keen on laminates (just a preference).
So make the trade and buy the one you want.
You don't need us to decide for you, right?

No, I didn't assume you'd sell yours for $600...I only wanted to hear you say it was worth more than the $600 figure somehow floating about on this non MIK forum board.

Well, knock on wood, but I'm on my 5th MIK D'A and never once had an issue with a tailpiece. As to string tension issues personally I never go lighter than 14's on any archtop I own. I've never so much as even broken a string on a MIK D'A...perhaps I've simply lived a blessed life?

Agreed, the pups are crapola, just like the pups are lacking on many Eastman's, original Heritage GE's, and countless other archtops...but that's an easy and inexpensive fix, if one is willing not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

My Vestax NY'er, which typically sells for 3-4 times the price USED also underwent a pickup swap and benefitted greatly...same goes for these modest MIK D'A's...most archtops are enhanced by pup swaps, and in the very least doing so gives an owner greater freedom towards dialing in an archtop more to their liking.

[SamBooka]

...... But it was sold for less than I paid because the tailpiece was defective, which is a problem with some of the MIK. The alloy used doesn't hold up to more than 12's.

Not just some MIK... I had the same problem with my ES 165. Was using 14s at the time (or maybe Chromes 13s but with a 14/18 E/B). When I spoke to Gibson they didn't sell replacement zigzags and suggested I contact allparts or stewmac since they were sourced from the same place.

[jzguy]

I recently acquired an Excel from an original owner who purchased new in 2009; I believe this makes it a 2007 or 2008. A few questions: How do you authenticate using the SN? Could this be one of the models from the blowout of late 2006? Where is current production? I notice different accents with MOP on current models than the older ones. Thanks

[GNAPPI]

I now have three EXS-1DH models, and I am pretty certain that I am the second owner of all three. The Blue (KS0707xxxx) Sunburst (KS0602xxxx) I'm pretty certain are Samick made 2007 and 2002 respectively. The wine (S04121xxxx) which has the Japanese style tailpiece came in a brown case without D'A logo on it, the original owner said it came as you see it. I have no idea where or when it was made.

D'Angelico seems to have no interest in documenting their own instrument lineage... too bad. Maybe threads like this will get the attention of someone in the know?

At any rate, I've said it before and I'll say it again, these recent D'A's are wonderful guitars rivaling most if not all of the other guitars I have or have played.

[jzguy]

Thanks for your reply; nice trio you have there! My SN is actually similar but it's ks0603XXXX making it an '03 I guess. It's safe to say that I'll be grabbing some others down the road, preferably one of the early 2000 NY's MIJ.

[samickdude]

I now have three EXS-1DH models, and I am pretty certain that I am the second owner of all three. The Blue (KS0707xxxx) Sunburst (KS0602xxxx) I'm pretty certain are Samick made 2007 and 2002 respectively. The wine (S04121xxxx) which has the Japanese style tailpiece came in a brown case without D'A logo on it, the original owner said it came as you see it. I have no idea where or when it was made.

D'Angelico seems to have no interest in documenting their own instrument lineage... too bad. Maybe threads like this will get the attention of someone in the know?

At any rate, I've said it before and I'll say it again, these recent D'A's are wonderful guitars rivaling most if not all of the other guitars I have or have played.

Sorry for the necropost, but I can shed some light on this. I'm working on a wiki for Samick built guitars, and in researching these models, this is what I've found.

Samick's Korean plant was actually bought by a group of workers in 2003 and turned into it's own company (sound familiar?) called SPG. They now build some Gretsches, Guilds and all of the Standard/Excel Series D'Angelicos. Of those, I've only played a Gretsch Double Jet but I was really impressed. I own some '90s Samicks made in the same plant and I would just say they're a tad less consistent (although my 335 copy is stellar). It seems the lower production numbers allow them to really put their all into these guitars, and maybe the pride of ownership of their factory helps, as well.

As for dating, it seems they used the "KS" prefix from 2005-2013 and "US" from then until now. The first two numbers are the year, and the next two are likely the month, followed by the production number. So your first two are a 2007 and 2006, respectively.

Now, as for the third, the "S" prefix signified the Korean factory since 1992, and Samick models used it until 2006, when they shifted production entirely to Indonesia. So it seems you've got a December 2004 model before they established their new "KS" prefix for contract builds. That may be one of the first batches made, as I understand they were first sold in 2005, correct?

[John A.]

The SN on my EX DC begins with an R. Any idea what that means?

[samickdude]

Hm, was it made in Korea? Does it have the same "made in Incheon" label? Also, what are the first two digits?

[John A.]

Yes, it has the "made in Incheon" label. The full SN is R05120057

John

[JazzNote]

I have an Incheon made Excel EXL-1DP with S/N R907066008 which i bought new in June 2008, and a Vestax New Yorker of which i probably am the second owner with S/N odo83013. It says on the label where it was produced.

[samickdude]

Hmm, very curious stuff. IDK why they would use so many different prefixes.

I have an Incheon made Excel EXL-1DP with S/N R907066008 which i bought new in June 2008, and a Vestax New Yorker of which i probably am the second owner with S/N odo83013. It says on the label where it was produced.

I would have to assume "R9" is the prefix and it's a 2007 build.

I've tried to make as much sense of it as possible here:

Serial Numbers - Samick Wikia - Wikia

If anyone knows any other variations I'd appreciate the info.

[John A.]

Hmm, very curious stuff. IDK why they would use so many different prefixes.



I would have to assume "R9" is the prefix and it's a 2007 build.

I've tried to make as much sense of it as possible here:

Serial Numbers - Samick Wikia - Wikia

If anyone knows any other variations I'd appreciate the info.

Ah, I see -- mine D'A with a SN beginning in R05 was made by SPG in 2005 (?). I'm curious -- how did you figure this stuff out? One often sees people speculating that D'Angelicos are made my Samick (or Peerless), but I don't think I've ever seen a source cited.

John

[samickdude]

Yes, December 2005.

Well, it started with Gretsch themselves putting out a serial number decoder that referred to the "KS" prefix as "Samick/SPG". From there, I found SPG's now defunct website explaining how they split with Samick. Then, I heard people saying SPG also made the new Guilds and D'Angelicos. When I found them with the KS prefix, it was pretty clear. Add to that the "Made in Incheon", and we know the Peerless factory is not in Incheon, Korea. Furthermore, I can actually be 100% certain because I found this website that shows a shipping record from SPG Musical Instruments Co. to D'Angelico:

https://panjiva.com/D-Angelico-Guitars/4281291

As for the serial format, they've almost always used something along the lines of that format, and we can assume it's most likely the same as the Gretsch format.

[John A.]

Yes, December 2005.

Well, it started with Gretsch themselves putting out a serial number decoder that referred to the "KS" prefix as "Samick/SPG". From there, I found SPG's now defunct website explaining how they split with Samick. Then, I heard people saying SPG also made the new Guilds and D'Angelicos. When I found them with the KS prefix, it was pretty clear. Add to that the "Made in Incheon", and we know the Peerless factory is not in Incheon, Korea. Furthermore, I can actually be 100% certain because I found this website that shows a shipping record from SPG Musical Instruments Co. to D'Angelico:

https://panjiva.com/D-Angelico-Guitars/4281291

As for the serial format, they've almost always used something along the lines of that format, and we can assume it's most likely the same as the Gretsch format.

Very impressive ... Ace Ventura -- Import-Export Logistics Detective :-)

John

[JazzNote]

Comparing both the Korean Incheon made Excel 1-DPA and the Japanese Vestax New Yorker, the Korean looks nicer, but the Vestax plays nicer. I find that there's quite a difference between the two. The Vestax is more mellow and seems to respond to dynamics better then the Incheon. I bought the Vestax a couple of years after the Incheon and have not played the Incheon anymore after that.

I faintly remember that someone once wrote that the Vestax models have a pressed top, while the Incheon models are laminated. However, i can't confirm this as i'm not an expert on archtop manufacturing.

[JazzNote]

just found a minute to take pics of the labels: