Getting a warm, fat tone without an archtop?

[Clamps]

Ted green played with his fingers, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet...that must have affected his tone and feel a great deal, I know I sound much 'fuller' when I'm using my nails on my RH.....

I've noticed that articulation isn't a subject that has come up in this thread...maybe dismayed is too strong a word, but I am curious...even though we're in the gizmos, guitars and amps section the aspect of technique hasn't come up either. I think we should spend more time concentrating on getting the desired tone through practice and critical listening to our own sound projection. That's how we did it in school, all those years ago.

[Jazz_175]

No, I meant the warm sound he has.

Which video clip or recording are you talking about.
He often played a Telecaster and I think he also recorded his Solo Guitar with a Telecaster

[oldane]

I'm surprised only one has mentioned the setup of the guitar. Medium or heavy flatwound strings, a not so low action and picking over the neck pickup should get you in the warm jazz ballpark with most solidbodies. What you won't hear with a solidbody is the ''echo'' of the hollow box but that's not the same as lack of warmth. In my book, rolling off the tone control all the way is not the way to a jazz tone - it's the way to a muddy tone which doesn't project well and separates notes badly in chords.

[Stevebol]

Heavy strings and high action unless it's a classical. Guitar doesn't matter otherwise.

[kris]

Humbucker/,flatwound strings/13''/ and good quality tube amp...this help to get fat and warm tone.:-)

[Jim Soloway]

Ted green played with his fingers, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet...that must have affected his tone and feel a great deal, I know I sound much 'fuller' when I'm using my nails on my RH.....

I've noticed that articulation isn't a subject that has come up in this thread...maybe dismayed is too strong a word, but I am curious...even though we're in the gizmos, guitars and amps section the aspect of technique hasn't come up either. I think we should spend more time concentrating on getting the desired tone through practice and critical listening to our own sound projection. That's how we did it in school, all those years ago.

I've been playing with my fingers for so long that sometimes I forget to mention tat but yes, it's much easier to get a warm tone with your fingers. And for finger players it's really important to understand the difference that nail length makes (and the difference is huge). All flesh is dark, all nail is bright and thin, a combination of nail and flesh is warm and articulate. It always obvious when to file my nails. When they get too long my tone suddenly gets much thinner and brittle sounding.

As for the notion of heavy strings with higher action, I know it works but I hate how much harder it is to play with a guitar set up like that. My strings are very light and my action quite low. I compensate for that with a lighter touch.

[Bluedawg]

I prefer to play with a strap even when sitting ... that makes it easy to play any sized guitar for me and it puts the guitar in the "classical" position which helps me play better ... maybe you tried this and it didn't work for you

I hate hunching over a guitar on my right leg ...

I think there's tonal advantages to playing with a nice archtop that a solid body can't deliver ..... but you can still get great jazz tone from a solid body ... and they have their own magic that archtops don't have


so experiment and see what works for you

[jazzman1021]

Hi Niccorico_03. Experiment. Use those knobs on the guitar of your choosing and your amp to dial up different sounds until you find one to your liking. Get feedback from other players. Your voice will begin to shine. I've been playing jazz on a Stratocaster for years. Best wishes.

JM1021

[ooglybong]

You can get there with a lot of different guitars, but I do believe the gear will play some roll and I believe that some guitars get there easier than others.

If you want some acoustic presence in your tone, then lower output pickups help as does having your pickup set up fairly low in height relative to the strings.

Flat wound or half wound strings will be a bit darker than round wound strings.

All things being equal, a shorter scale length will produce a warmer tone than a longer scale length.

Picking further from the bridge helps as does a lighter touch.

Tuning the guitar to a lower pitch, as Ted Greene often did, also helps.

Thanks for the great checklist, Jim. It's interesting that your experience and expertise with various scale lengths leads you the comment on shorter scale lengths being "fatter/warmer".

How about having a maple -vs- mahogany body (whether laminate or solid/carved)?
How about having a maple -vs- spruce top (whether laminate or solid/carved)?
How about having a maple -vs- mahogany neck?

TIA.

[Gertrude Moser]

Heavy strings and high action unless it's a classical. Guitar doesn't matter otherwise.

If you don't really know what you're talking about, you don't have to post you know?

[rpguitar]

Those wood-type-things obviously matter, but I'm with Jim in the scale length, string type/gauge, and plectrum/technique camp. Almost anything can sound warm and fat. Single coils on a solidbody, or humbuckers on a hollowbody. Thinner picks for thinner strings, or use fingers.

I play an L-5C or a 175 with 12-52 nickel roundwound strings and a .88mm pick. Or I will play a Tele or a hard tail Strat, each with 11-49 nickel rounds and a .73mm pick. The L-5 has a Johnny Smith floater. The 175 has PAF humbuckers. And the Tele/Strat each has the normal style pickup for its respective type of guitar. I also use nail-less fingers on the two Fender types with great success.

All of these combos can be warm and fat.

I actually have the hardest time with any guitar equipped with a "hot" pickup, especially a solidbody. That kills the fatness for me. Fatness requires attack definition, otherwise it's just mud. Hot pickups give you too much sustain and not enough acoustic presence. Acoustic presence is one reason we like hollow bodies. But a solid body can approach some of the same attributes related to "acoustic presence" when equipped with single coil pickups.

My head hurts. Hopefully some of this makes a little sense!

[Chimera1to1]

Don't get caught up in the well intentioned trap that this is good, that isn't.

Old head, young shoulders, kissing lots of guitar frogs. Its got to be a hollow body, humbucker, rosewood short scale neck, high action and then many hours and money down the road you find you adore a single coil solid tele with a maple board and 0.03 inch action.

Just get a reasonably priced bog standard guitar that isn't too off piste for jazz and pick a sensible gauge of flat wounds.

The important bit is to find a luthier that can stone/level the frets, cut the nut real low and make your guitar play as well as it possibly can.

Facilitate playability and in a few months you will know what you want for your sound and you won't care less for someone else's opinion as to how you should progress.

[Spook410]

'Warm' can mean many different things. But a nicely set up solid body will not sound like a nicely setup archtop. If you want the woody sound you get from an acoustic instrument you might try a Gibson 330 or equivalent.

[Stevebol]

If you don't really know what you're talking about, you don't have to post you know?

You have a point. I don't even know what kind of amp he's using. I'm out.

[Spook410]

You have a point. I don't even know what kind of amp he's using. I'm out.

Everyone's opinions are valid around here and we all like seeing the great diversity in viewpoints. If someone doesn't feel that way and is compelled to share their distaste for those posts without attached credentials and/or objective evidence, I recommend you just ignore them. We do want to hear what you have to say. I further suggest those that wish to criticize and belittle work on their compulsions.

[woyvel]

It sounds as if size and weight (nobody seemed to mention that) might be an issue. Therefor, a hollow or chambered body might be the way to go. The previous suggestions are all part of the equasion, but I'd offer one caveat to the PRS suggestion: PRS does not recommend flat wound strings on their bridges. My Ibanez Artcore is a bit warmer than my PRS Semi, and both are rather light weight. My overall suggestions would be PAF humbuckers, light weight hollow (or even a solid), rosewood fingerboard (though I like ebony) and flat wound strings.

If you run across a Parker, don't be afraid to try it either. Martino used one and it isn't the run-of-th-mill solid body, and even the Aian models are incredibly light.