US-made vs Non US-made Archtop Guitars

**Hobbs** · 01-09-2020, 09:00 PM

Are there any moderately priced US or Japanese made guitars out there? The only thing that I have found are the high and Ibanez’s. Everything else appears to be made in China (Eastman), Indonesia (Ibanez, D’Angelico, Epiphony), Korea (Guild), etc. I know that Benedetto and Gibson kicks ass, but an L7 costs as much is my car.

I’ve never bought anything but American made Fenders and Gibsons for my solid body electric‘s. Now that I’m into jazz and archtops, I feel like I’m having to settle for mass-produced foreign-made stuff made out of subpar woods. My Eric Clapton Strat cost less than two grand… Where is the archtop equivalent?

**Hammertone** · 01-09-2020, 11:05 PM

I personally have no problem with the quality of plenty of guitars that come out of China or Korea, but here's the beginning of a list of archtop makers who offer or offered archtop guitars not made in the Orient:
-Godin (Canada/US) - new or used, good value
-Hofner (Europe) - new are good value, used are excellent value

**Spook410** · 01-09-2020, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hobbs

Are there any moderately priced US or Japanese made guitars out there? The only thing that I have found are the high and Ibanez’s. Everything else appears to be made in China (Eastman), Indonesia (Ibanez, D’Angelico, Epiphony), Korea (Guild), etc. I know that Benedetto and Gibson kicks ass, but an L7 costs as much is my car.

I’ve never bought anything but American made Fenders and Gibsons for my solid body electric‘s. Now that I’m into jazz and archtops, I feel like I’m having to settle for mass-produced foreign-made stuff made out of subpar woods. My Eric Clapton Strat cost less than two grand… Where is the archtop equivalent?

Based on all that I've seen, Eastman's are made from excellent woods including their carved archtop models. Nothing wrong with the laminates being used by the Korean factories either. What are you basing the 'subpar woods' comment on?

**Jim Soloway** · 01-10-2020, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Based on all that I've seen, Eastman's are made from excellent woods including their carved archtop models. Nothing wrong with the laminates being used by the Korean factories either. What are you basing the 'subpar woods' comment on?

Perhaps the disussion on this forum about Ibanez using Linden for some of their archtops.

**Spook410** · 01-10-2020, 04:38 AM

Basswood (Linden) is not what I would choose for a strat body though some do. It's been used as a guitar wood for a long time. However, in a factory jazz guitar we're talking laminates so the objection is the lack of figuring? Haven't looked into it. But if it's a concern buy a different model or look into one of the many alternatives to Ibanez. Seems the generalization that all Asian made guitars ('foreign made' no less) are subpar woods is not based on either an engineering or aesthetic assessment.

**Ol' Fret** · 01-10-2020, 10:52 AM

<< Based on all that I've seen, Eastman's are made from excellent woods including their carved archtop models. >>

On "subpar woods" in China:
About 8 years ago I talked to the successor/actual owner in South Germany of what was once Europe's leading tonewood dealer.
Walking through their warehouse I noticed that many shelves with some of the best Alpine, Carpathian and Bosnian tonewoods were emptied.
Asked about it, they told me that the Chinese have been getting shiploads of tonewood for several years.
The situation was identical on a later visit, and at all other major tonewood dealers I've asked since then.

If you commission a carved archtop guitar in Germany, chances are good that the luthier will have to stop by the tonewood dealer first to select the wood available at the time. If he/she is unlucky, the steamer has just left for China. Certainly not the best starting point ... in the past, luthiers may have passed on the woods to the following generations. They knew their stock pile exactly!

When talking about high-grade tonewood, most players make the mistake of thinking about exclusive and spectacularly grained and figured wood. We experience this here almost every week, but unfortunately, or maybe luckily for others, this wood is often not the best one for the acoustic sound.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-10-2020, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Basswood (Linden) is not what I would choose for a strat body though some do. It's been used as a guitar wood for a long time. However, in a factory jazz guitar we're talking laminates so the objection is the lack of figuring? Haven't looked into it. But if it's a concern buy a different model or look into one of the many alternatives to Ibanez. Seems the generalization that all Asian made guitars ('foreign made' no less) are subpar woods is not based on either an engineering or aesthetic assessment.

The discussions about foreign made guitars rarely have much to do with the musical utility or build quality of the instruments.

**Hobbs** · 01-10-2020, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Perhaps the disussion on this forum about Ibanez using Linden for some of their archtops.

Exactly.

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**Hobbs** · 01-10-2020, 04:21 PM

Great discussion guys! Many valid arguments made and noted.

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**Jim Soloway** · 01-10-2020, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hobbs

Exactly.

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Keep in mind that the guitars in that discussion were essentially consumer grade instruments being built for mass distribution by a very large corporation. Those guitars are not not a reflection on all Asian built guitars or even all guitars being built by Ibanez. The full array of guitars being built in Asia range all the way from absurdly inexpensive throw away guitars being built for the least amount possible all the way up to some of the finest factory and boutique builds being done on the planet (including sime being built by Ibanez). They all have to be judged on their own merit.

**Hobbs** · 01-10-2020, 08:29 PM

It sounds like Eastman may also be the exception to the rule. Everyone on this forum seems to love them. I’ve never played one, and only one shop in my city sells them.

I also think that the low-end Ibanez’s are a steal for the price; however, I wish they had a non-Chinese middle ground between their $300 and $3,000 price ranges.

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**Jim Soloway** · 01-10-2020, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Hobbs

It sounds like Eastman may also be the exception to the rule. Everyone on this forum seems to love them. I’ve never played one, and only one shop in my city sells them.

I also think that the low-end Ibanez’s are a steal for the price; however, I wish they had a non-Chinese middle ground between their $300 and $3,000 price ranges.

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Have a look at the Artcore Expressionist series. Some of them are very cool guitars for a really reasonable price.

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**Gustavo Eiriz** · 01-11-2020, 02:34 PM

Probably americans does the best quality. But not because of the country talent or whatever, because of tradition, everyone heard a jazz guitar in america, in other countries there is no such a tradition. Just like Brazilian are good for soccer or Italians for opera singing.
That being said i sold my 1970 Gibson L-5 because my Mr.Wu custom made guitar was all that i needed. Really they could perfectly compare. Asians are getting everyday better and better.

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**Fred Archtop** · 01-11-2020, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gustavo Eiriz

Probably americans does the best quality. But not because of the country talent or whatever, because of tradition, everyone heard a jazz guitar in america, in other countries there is no such a tradition.

Pardon my judgement but I can't disagree more. There are many countries with great luthier and jazz guitar craftmanship tradition. It's not a matter of nationality, it's a matter of being dedicated to what you do. As an example, one of the very best luthiers in the tradition of great prewar Gibsons is Daniël Slaman from The Netherlands. This guy turned to be a guitar builder for Pat Metheny over the last years. There are great luthiers in the US, of course, but not only.

Cheers.

**Gustavo Eiriz** · 01-11-2020, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fred Archtop

Pardon my judgement but I can't disagree more. There are many countries with great luthier and jazz guitar craftmanship tradition. It's not a matter of nationality, it's a matter of being dedicated to what you do. As an example, one of the very best luthiers in the tradition of great prewar Gibsons is Daniël Slaman from The Netherlands. This guy turned to be a guitar builder for Pat Metheny over the last years. There are great luthiers in the US, of course, but not only.

Cheers.

I really dont know well... But since violaian type instruments construction has much tradition is probably that in Europe also the best quality can be achieved... I am speaking not about talent or dedication. Only tradition... For example i didnt heard an solid archtop guitar until my middle 30's.. Just because in my country there are not such guitars. But we have great classical guitars luthiers because everyone heres plays the nylon guitar.

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**Fred Archtop** · 01-13-2020, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gustavo Eiriz

I really dont know well... But since violaian type instruments construction has much tradition is probably that in Europe also the best quality can be achieved... I am speaking not about talent or dedication. Only tradition... For example i didnt heard an solid archtop guitar until my middle 30's.. Just because in my country there are not such guitars. But we have great classical guitars luthiers because everyone heres plays the nylon guitar.

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Japan is also the perfect counter example of your statement. They produced wonderful jazz archtops right from the '70s (and still produce!). This has nothing to do with nations…Time, dedication, sense of details are some of the qualities needed to make great guitars.

Cheers.