Gibson ES-175 reissue arrived "early"

**Chimera1to1** · 02-14-2013, 09:05 AM

Just had a phone call to say that the 175 I was told would take 3 months to arrive on order from Gibson has arrived after a wait of only two weeks. Do I take this as "good luck" or is it likely to be one somebody else has rejected. I'm in the UK so if anyone can give me the heads up then please PM me

Thanks

**hot ford coupe** · 02-14-2013, 10:59 AM

If you really want to give it a good once over, it may help to write down the truly most important deal breakers to you so you don't forget them and then find them after the return period is over. I wouldn't be too picky about minor things because no guitar is absolutely perfect and you'll drive yourself nuts. On second thought, you know what you're doing so enjoy that great instrument. I know you'll love it.

**Bluedawg** · 02-14-2013, 11:10 AM

The 3 months estimate was probably just preparing you for the worst case scenario ....

Your dealer got lucky and placed the order before Gibson sold and shipped out the latest batch of new 175s ... or the UK distributor still had a few in stock

Good Luck and I hope you've gotten a nice one

**bmw2002** · 02-14-2013, 12:13 PM

Another idea might be to make an appointment for an inspection with a guitar tech you trust for the day after you receive the guitar. Might be worth the hopefully low amount of money you'd spend for the peace of mind it would bring. You could even ask the tech to credit the amount towards any set-up work you might have to do once the guitar has settled in, and you've determined your preferences.

**Chimera1to1** · 02-14-2013, 12:38 PM

Those sound like really good ideas all of you, many thanks. I feel physically sick at the idea of spending that much cash on a guitar but I don't suppose I'll be buying any more in that price range

**Spook410** · 02-14-2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

>>>
If you need a calm walk through what is important to you and what to look for/at on a new guitar, then let's have that conversation.

This is a very good idea. Would probably apply to a new or used instrument. I think most of us have a mental list but writing something down and gaining insight from others would certainly be beneficial. Some initial thoughts..

1. Physical Inspection
a. Gaps and/or cracks
b. Applied finish (crazing, scratches, dullness, discoloration)
c. Frets (even, polished, ends)
d. Fretboard (finish, level, inlay workmanship)
e. Serial number (made when and where expected)
f. Vintage instrument: dates on pots, wiring, original parts
g. Any barriers to a proper set up (nut cut too low, no adjustment left on bridge, truss rod issues)
h. Pickups are level and installed properly
i. Guitar does not need a neck reset
j. Neck is not warped
k. Case is what it should be

2. Functional Inspection
a. Tuners work, adjustable bits adjust
b. Tailpiece holds the string ends properly
c. Truss rod bolt moves

3. Playing Test
a. All electronics work as expected without scratching, humming, or other unexpected noises
b. No surprises that a setup can't address
c. No buzzes or rattles as you go up and down the neck
d. Wolf tones and dead spots you can live with
e. Comfortable playing position can be achieved

**teleman3726** · 02-14-2013, 03:40 PM

Jab is right on all counts.

It probably doesn't matter whether the guitar arrived early or not. What's important now is whether it meets your expectations and how to cover your ass in the event it does not. For what it's worth.

1. Get all of the vital communication in writing (viz., everything that could involve $$ or what's expected of each party)

2. Get the return policy in writing.

3. Get the return shipping policy in writing.

4. Pay with a credit card in the event there is misrepresentation/fraud. The bank/CC company will go after them but this might take some time, mind you.

5. If anything is amiss when the guitar arrives, notify the company immediately in writing and take pictures (just in case there's a crack in the cutaway, as an example

)

6. Try to be professional and civilized at all times - since some dealers aren't, evidently.

7. If the guitar has to be returned, notify the dealer in writing and have the dealer arrange for the pickup of the guitar (the larger ones will do this).

8. Get the tracking number, and notify the dealer when the guitar arrives and remind them that the refund is now required.

9. In extreme cases - or where you're just so pissed that you handed over $$ in good faith and the dealer sent you a pig in a poke (to put it mildly) - ask a lawyer to make a call to the dealer and remind him of the refund. (It's notable how quickly a refund can be issued shortly after such a call).

Not sure if you're dealing with a UK dealer or one on this side of the pond. If here, there's a lot of crap here, so cover your ass well.

I suspect all will be well in your case, so enjoy the anticipation of a new guitar. Take pictures of it and let us know your thoughts. It should be a fun time!!

**teleman3726** · 02-14-2013, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Spook410

This is a very good idea. Would probably apply to a new or used instrument. I think most of us have a mental list but writing something down and gaining insight from others would certainly be beneficial. Some initial thoughts..

1. Physical Inspection
a. Gaps and/or cracks
b. Applied finish (crazing, scratches, dullness, discoloration)
c. Frets (even, polished, ends)
d. Fretboard (finish, level, inlay workmanship)
e. Serial number (made when and where expected)
f. Vintage instrument: dates on pots, wiring, original parts
g. Any barriers to a proper set up (nut cut too low, no adjustment left on bridge, truss rod issues)
h. Pickups are level and installed properly
i. Guitar does not need a neck reset
j. Neck is not warped
k. Case is what it should be

2. Functional Inspection
a. Tuners work, adjustable bits adjust
b. Bridge holds the string ends properly
c. Truss rod bolt moves

3. Playing Test
a. All electronics work as expected without scratching, humming, or other unexpected noises
b. No surprises that a setup can't address
c. No buzzes or rattles as you go up and down the neck
d. Wolf tones and dead spots you can live with
e. Comfortable playing position can be achieved

This is a really good list. I will print it off and stick it on the wall.
I'll also likely send it to prospective dealers the next time I fork over cash for a "vintage" guitar or a used one that was sold her new. Ha!
Rather like "interviewing" the dealer. See how many complete the questionnaire.

**Chimera1to1** · 02-14-2013, 04:16 PM

I had my fingers burnt on a s/hand 175 a couple of years back' buying unseen. Sent it straight back but they wanted to delay the refund for two months. They resold it and amended the description suggesting I had been picky expecting the bridge adjustment screws not to have gone through the finish into the wood....! Picking up this time and there is an excellent Luther near the shop so I hope he will check it out as part of the setup. That list is going to get printed a few times I'm sure

**Chimera1to1** · 02-15-2013, 06:06 AM

Hey fair do's to the retailer, they wrapped some PTFE tape around the screws to try and hold them in place in the bridge. A "quality" job if ever there wasn't one.

**rpguitar** · 02-15-2013, 09:22 AM

Well, if this were me, I'd be clicking my heels and charging down to see my new guitar. Why such chagrin? Save it til it's needed, which it hopefully will not be. When will you claim your new "old" 175?

**Chimera1to1** · 02-15-2013, 11:38 AM

Edited. Draw your own conclusions

**2bornot2bop** · 02-15-2013, 04:39 PM

all this talk about a new archtop arrival and not a single pic!? so not kewl!

**teleman3726** · 02-15-2013, 10:40 PM

My wife is working from 7.30 am till 8.30 pm. I have to go in to her work to get her to transfer the funds, cos I can't read her writing for the internet bank accounts. She transfers the money, comes home from work exhausted but still has the good grace to be excited for me. Tomorrow is her birthday and unless she plans to spend the entire day soaking in overpriced bathing products then she is going to be disappointed with her presents.

Does she have a sister?
Send us a pic of the guitar and borrow some cash to treat that goddess right.
If not, ship here here, COD!

**Chimera1to1** · 02-16-2013, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by teleman3726

My wife is working from 7.30 am till 8.30 pm. I have to go in to her work to get her to transfer the funds, cos I can't read her writing for the internet bank accounts. She transfers the money, comes home from work exhausted but still has the good grace to be excited for me. Tomorrow is her birthday and unless she plans to spend the entire day soaking in overpriced bathing products then she is going to be disappointed with her presents.

Does she have a sister?
Send us a pic of the guitar and borrow some cash to treat that goddess right.
If not, ship here here, COD!

Yeah she's got a sister but she's spoken for too! Money not hit the account yet so no pics available yet. The good lady is out for pampering and a restaurant is booked for later. Its the least I can do....cos she won't see me for days once I pick up "Ruthy". That's right I'm going to name the 175 after my wife, what an ar%e kisser/great tactician/ wonderful romantic guy I am

**teleman3726** · 02-16-2013, 01:58 PM

Ha, good move.
You're slick! Guys, take note!
What you ought to do is get the truss rod cover engraved with her name.
That'll seal the deal and open the way for more purchases!!
One thing: Just keep the old one, in case you sell the 175 later.
I was looking at a L12 and there the truss rod cover had the name of some Italian dude on it!
Ha!!! Devalued!!!!

**Chimera1to1** · 02-16-2013, 06:18 PM

Edited

**Chimera1to1** · 02-18-2013, 09:08 AM

Edited

**teleman3726** · 02-18-2013, 09:18 AM

Man, that totally blows.
Sorry to hear it.
Get the refund - push hard for that if the law is behind you and seriously get some barrister to make a quick call to the store. It might be quicker than going through TS.
The shop shouldn't have sold you the guitar with issues. What were they, incidentally.
Stick it to the company, for sure.
I don't live in the UK but others should be aware of their practices.
Personally, most of the guitar dealers I've dealt with recently have been A-1 shysters, peddling crap.
Keep us posted and give your wife a big squeeze for being so cool, despite the problems.

**Chimera1to1** · 02-18-2013, 10:26 AM

Edited

**Legg's Lane** · 02-18-2013, 11:07 AM

First post..

Whilst visiting relatives in Vermont last October I visited a large music store in Burlington and played a new guitar I liked alot which was on a reduced sale price, a Martin OO-18V. The action seemed a little high but adjustable. Always a mistake to go shopping for food when you're hungry... When I was back home in the UK I ordered the guitar on the telephone. It was sent, fully insured and in its original Martin packaging, by USPS fast transit and was with me in 3 days. The total cost including all taxes and postage was about the same as if I had bought it here in the UK so the deal seemed a good idea. The guitar, however, was almost unplayable on arrival. The neck had risen so that the action was way too high, even though the strings had been loosened prior to transit to reduce the possibility of this. There are only two Martin approved luthiers here in the UK, one approved by the UK distributor, Westside, and one by the Martin Guitar company. They are both within an hour's drive so I had them both look at the guitar and both declared it as needing a neck reset. On a brand new guitar. To cut a long story short both the store and Martin guitars agreed they would fix it under warranty but I would have to pay for insured postage both ways. It was much cheaper to have the second luthier do the job, which he did. It doesn't look right with the change in fretboard pitch at the 14th fret but it plays OK. I won't be doing that again. I guess we expect better things of an expensive new guitar; and, sadly, we shouldn't.

**teleman3726** · 02-18-2013, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Chimera1to1

Spoken to Citizens Advice Bureau and they have logged a complaint and are awaiting a response from the store and will assist in a civil and possibly a criminal prosecution with Trading Standards.

The guitar was produced out the back of the store. I wasn't shown a case for it nor a COA. The guitar did not appear to bear a serial number and the staff couldn't explain why not or where it was. The action was very high but the bridge screws wouldn't turn to adjust it. Even though the action was very high the bridge appeared to be as low as it would go. There was a twist in the neck, the nut hadn't been properly cut and the neck pickup mounting ring wasn't the same shape as the arched top so there was a gap.I was told this was all because it was "hand made". I wasn't shown anything to prove it was new, or a proper Gibson. I didn't have any way of checking it with Gibson either. It didn't seem comparable to the other Gibsons in the shop. There was an ES 335 reissue that was cheaper and much better put together, but then I wanted a 175 not a 335.

I sent several emails to the shop and they didn't reply until I forwarded the CAB complaint reference number to them and now they say they are processing the refund. No apology though.

I hope this doesn't sound like a rant but I am really upset and hugely disappointed. I love Gibson guitars but the company and the dealers are awful. They don't actually deserve to stay in business and perhaps it would be better if someone else ran Gibson guitars so that the people that keep a roof over their heads are actually happy with how they are treated and feel as good as they should feel when they have bought their dream guitar.

I really hoped the guitar would be a keeper. When it wasn't right is it too much to ask for someone to say, "I'm terribly sorry Sir. Shall we get another one in or would you like a refund?"

Good for you!!!
You did all the right things, and stuck it to those aholes that sold you garbage and wouldn't return your refund!
I wouldn't expect an apology. Perhaps the best you can hope for is the owner of that tin shack that parades as a dealer goes out of business. Be nice to see the prick grubbing for a few pence on street.
I would forward your complaint and experience to Gibson's head office. Not sure if this "shop" is a certified Gibson dealer, but if so they might lose that title. Just a guess.

**Spook410** · 02-18-2013, 12:38 PM

Umm.. no serial number? No proper Gibson case? No COA? Any chance the guitar is a counterfeit? Would it be possible for you to post some pictures?

Sorry your having to go through this. We all get really fired up about a new guitar especially a really nice one. Getting jerked around at this point is particularly hard to take.