Small Fender tube amps

[tfaux]

Reviving an old question...

I'm looking at small Fender tube amps, debating between a Deluxe Reverb, a Princeton 65 Reissue, and a Blues Jr.

The uses for the amp:
• my teaching studio
• home rehearsal
• small clubs, receptions, concerts in churches and other quiet venues.

I play jazz on a telecaster, and I go for the creamy clean sound. I've been playing solid state amps for decades, but like the tone of the Fenders. I had a Fender Twin in my rock youth, but the application was completely different

I'm leaning to the Blues Jr. because it's got a mid-range boost, but I'm leery of the breaking-up.

Q: Can I get that fat mid-range sound out of the DRRI or Princeton by adjusting treble and bass?

Q: Do the Deluxe and Princeton sound ok at low volume? Does the Blues Jr. sound ok at higher levels?

All thoughts and advice most welcome!

Tom

[SamBooka]

What do you consider loud?
A lot of people here treat opinions as absolutes so take this with a grain of salt
My deluxe rev sits in the corner looking pretty because it is too loud for home use Have used it in small clubs for rock gigs
Didn't have to mic the amp because we didn't mike the drums
It stayed clean enough so it would meet your other requirements

My Princeton reverb sounds ok at bedroom volumes and rehearsals but I wouldn't gig it with a drummer. You might be pushing your luck unless you like a bit of dirt and compression

My blues jr is very similar to the PR for volume so the same rules apply
Tonally they Are different beasts with a different kind of breakup
The jr required more knob twiddling (keep the master at 90% play with the fat switch etc ) and I did some of the billm mods and replaced the reverb tank
The PR is for me more plug and go but maybe most of the knob-turning the Jr requires is because it isnt the right amp for the job (for me).

IN CONCLUSION: (sorry for the long post). If you Gig a lot DR. and if it is too loud get a micro cube for practice. If you want to cover all your bases a PR will do it and for bigger gigs an extension cab. If you get a chance to try a BJr next to the other two and like it, there is no shame in that. I picked mine up because it was 150$ used and I am an ampwhore.

[tfaux]

[QUOTE=SamBooka;281724]What do you consider loud?

Thanks for the reply Sam, grain of salt duly taken.

"Loud" these days means enough headroom on the amp to play clean in a 40 seat club with a combo that includes bass, drums (not through the PA), trombone, and accordion.

The Deluxe Reverb would easily fill the bill, but I also want the amp for studio/teaching.

Tom

[RonD]

I love the DR but I can't use it for teaching unless I use a power attenuator.
Basically, it goes from nothing to too loud at 1!
YMMV

Ron

[Hjalmiz]

Hi
You Will not go wrong with a blackface amp. The deluxe reverb has got enough headroom. The reissiue blackface DR is kind of bright. But it want be a problem with a telecaster. They are much more tricky with a humbucker guitar.

I would not buy a new fender tweed model amp. I thinking they are terrible. Nothing like a old fender tweeds.

If you are in the us, then there are many clone builders. I would check them out. Something like a 112 super reverb fender clone would fit your wishlist.
Lil Dawg Blackface WonderDawg

[Archtop Guy]

Tom, Why not the DRRI and a small Frontman25r. I picked one of them up for $60 used and it's just great for home practice. Then you've got the best of both worlds.

[SamBooka]

Thanks for the reply Sam, grain of salt duly taken.

"Loud" these days means enough headroom on the amp to play clean in a 40 seat club with a combo that includes bass, drums (not through the PA), trombone, and accordion.

The Deluxe Reverb would easily fill the bill, but I also want the amp for studio/teaching.

Tom

Yeah... the thing about every fender tube amp I have ever owned is... they sound really really bad below 3. You CAN use the DR at bedroom levels but the reverb sounds funny.. the eq is way off.. and the speaker sounds like it is there in body but its spirit is daydreaming of being in the studio with the pre-Joe-walsh Eagles.

[jorgemg1984]

The DRRI can have a bright mod performed that i fairly easy to do. That and a C Rex speaker are classic mods on that amp. I find them stock to be too bright and under powered too sometimes.

The Blues Junior is very boxy. Most of that is the cab. And being an el84 15w amp sound VERY compressed at high volumes. Acceptable for recording, not usable with a jazz band in my opinion.

The Princeton sound much better at high volumes but it's still under powered and boxy for bigger gigs. It's also harsh on treble - all RI amps have that sound to me.

I don't know your budget but a Deluxe with 6l6 and more power - 35w / 40w would be perfect. Something like the Gries 35 looks perfect on paper (never tried one).

[IbanezAS100]

if you're buying new and are happy to spend $1000 on a Deluxe Reverb, I would recommend checking one of these amps for a bit more ($1400):

http://www.alessandro-products.com/w...rottweiler.htm

More than enough headroom for your applications, 40W, 6L6
36lbs
Sounds great at lower volumes and has built in 'Final Output Control'-kind of like an attenuator
Great build quality
Great Fender type tone with the 'Jangly' setting, darker tone with the 'Creamy' setting which is fantastic for Jazz

A lot of info on these if you google them, here's what they sound like:

I've had mine for about a year and a half and it covers all my needs (similar to yours, gigging/home use/teaching). You could even find a used one for under $1000.

[lpdeluxe]

I have the DRRI and I previously owned the Blues Jr NOS. I kept the Deluxe because it has so much more personality than the BJ. Fifteen vs 22 watts is not significant, but the Deluxe offers more versatility and (in my opinion) a more attractive basic sound.

As far as power, I used mine all summer in my small music room (about 20x20') rehearsing a group with a guitar player/lead vocalist playing his Gibson J45 (without a volume control) through the Fender, two backup vocalists, a percussionist, and me on electric bass using a Mesa/Boogie Walkabout head into two small cabinets. No mics on anything. The only complaints I heard came from the singers, who wanted the guitar louder! The material, by the way, was Ain't Misbehavin', Girl From Ipanema, Java Jive and so on -- hardly loud and raucous. The J45 sounded very smooth and jazzy. I was glad I had the DRRI on hand.

We used the same amp at our gigs, where it handled the space (a 200+ seat theatre) with no problems.

Finally, you can pick up a used one for a reasonable price ($600, in my case) and, if it doesn't work for you, sell it for what you paid for it.

[tfaux]

Many thanks for all the input!

Guess it's as I thought, each amp is almost right. I love the sound of the Deluxe Reverb turned up but I'd really like something that sounds as good set at 2. Jangly tone at low volume is definitely an irritant, particularly since I spend a lot more time teaching than I do gigging.

I have several little solid state amps kicking around, and maybe I'll just keep using them for teaching, but I'd sure love to have a tube amp that that works great for everything. The bright capacitor modification makes sense, but I'm no technician, and the idea of buying a new $1000 amp and immediately subjecting it to my soldering iron makes me a little anxious.

In any case, I'll be in Chicago next week so I'll have an opportunity to try them all side by side. Will also look into some of those other recommended amps.

Again, many thanks for the replies. Would love to hear more.

Tom

[lpdeluxe]

Good luck. There are a lot of good choices out there.

This does it for me:

[Encinitastubes]

I have a 1970 Princeton Reverb and a recent reissue. Both sound excellent. However, I've switched the speakers in both to Jensen C-10ns, which makes them louder and gives them more headroom. I find that crystal clear in the living room can sound thin and anemic with other instruments when there is cancelation going on. I slightly gritty tone in the living room can sound like a fat clean sound in a band situation. However, I agree that the PR is limited in how long it can stay clean. Still, I find that the reissue is a great amp that I like as much as the original.

[kawa]

C10NS is excellent unit.

I think, 6V6 OK and 6L6 also OK and SS OK, the most importance is transducer.

Jensen C-10ns - Google ŒŸõ

Jensen C-10ns - Google ŒŸõ

Vibrolux Reverb
1966 Vibrolux Reverb (same to mine, bought realtime)
Settings :
T1～2
B3.5
V2.5～3(home)～4.5(stage)
Inst : '67 ES-175DN V8 T10,Belden 9778-3m

Recommend !!! They did perfect job.Jensen C10NS C8284 220539 10" Speaker Repair Recone Pictures by Orange County Speaker Repair - SpeakerRepair.com
Notice !! "before" photo is only for an example,in case of me both speakers looks good, but only one side sound is thin and nallow.
I sent bad one.
Results:Perfect(compairsion test to original by footswitch)

The cost is only $50

I think C10NS is the unparallelled unit for jazz.

[jorgemg1984]

Many thanks for all the input!

Guess it's as I thought, each amp is almost right. I love the sound of the Deluxe Reverb turned up but I'd really like something that sounds as good set at 2. Jangly tone at low volume is definitely an irritant, particularly since I spend a lot more time teaching than I do gigging.

I have several little solid state amps kicking around, and maybe I'll just keep using them for teaching, but I'd sure love to have a tube amp that that works great for everything. The bright capacitor modification makes sense, but I'm no technician, and the idea of buying a new $1000 amp and immediately subjecting it to my soldering iron makes me a little anxious.

In any case, I'll be in Chicago next week so I'll have an opportunity to try them all side by side. Will also look into some of those other recommended amps.

Again, many thanks for the replies. Would love to hear more.

Tom

The Gries has a Master Volume. That should help a lot finding the sweet spot at different volume needs.

PS - I never trie done but it seems to have all the specs you want.

[tfaux]

Thanks Jorge,
The Gries amps get great reviews and seem kind of ideal. I'd love to try one out but evidently they're only sold by Gries himself, in Massachusetts. Any idea where I might find one close to central Illinois?

Tom

[jorgemg1984]

Hi Tom, I live in Portugal so no idea... Talk with them, maybe they can help you!

The Gries is 500 bucks more than a DRRI but in theory should be worth it. It should use better components, better construction, a better speaker, a better reverb, it has more watts, a 12 speaker, master volume... If I lived in the US I would have one of those for sure although the stock blackface sound is not always my cup of tea for jazz... And I would like the reverb to have a dwell control (which might be possible to add I guess)

Here's a demo of one

You have other builders who do similar stuff like Tube Tone and Vintage Sound Amps but they are more expensive and I believe they do not have a master control. VSA has a custom tone stack for jazz that is different from the Blackface one but I have no idea how good it is.

A little above you also have stuff like Dr Z EZG-50 (which has a master volume) and the Port City Pearl (which has not). These two are blackface inspired but not exact clones.

Good luck!

[Jimmy Mack]

I'm having a hard time understanding....not the responses....nor the OP's questions.

He wants the optimal tone and feel both at low volumes and in a band/live sit.

I appreciate the need for a Mid-bump for a jazz Tele, and the desire for head-room.

It sounds like two amps are needed. And maybe not a Fender, in both sit.

When I took lessons, and when I taught, the tone of the guitar was not the prime focus. Good tone was nice, but. I have played a $100.00 solid state amp with 8" spkr. with tone to die for. My teacher had me plug into his Twin Reverb turned down to "1.5" and it sounded fine. With JBL's!!!!!

How picky does one need to be? I'd place my focus on a great "Live" band tone. (Anti - gear opinion on what I think to be an inspired gear forum).

With that said, I have to stick with others here who say it's the content of your playing/instruction that counts most - not an obsession with tone. Leave that for later - focus on the inspiration quotient. (spoken from the standpoint of a dedicated student /or teacher).

After all that, get yourself a Princeton Reverb. You can swap speakers, and/or get a boost pedal. It will swing with you. Maybe a vintage one !!!

I gig regularly with mine. Loud and sometimes too loud, but the tone I love.

[PTChristopher]

I have a PRRI and got a significant clean headroom increase (but no dB measurement to quantify) via a Weber speaker and late breakup 6V6 tubes. The tubes made quite a difference in clean volume.

Also, it is super-easy to add a midrange/boost pot to a PRRI. It is just a 25K to 50K pot lifting the whole tone stack off of ground. I removed the fixed midrange resistor and used a 50K pot to give me anything from a mild mid cut to a significant boost.

I like it anyway.

Chris

[tfaux]

Chris, thanks for the noted about the Weber, the tubes, and the midrange pot. I'm taking notes on all of this!

Jimmy Mack, with respect, I'm not concerned here with my "content." I've been playing for upwards of 40 years, have a full teaching studio and a good university music dept. gig, and I'm fairly confident on my instrument. In fact, I AM extremely concerned with tone, and as an electric guitar player, I'm marginally concerned with the parameters of the gear, hence my post. Every time I plug my guitar in I want to hear tone that thrills me. Indeed, most other considerations are secondary.

That all said, I get your point. Your Princeton Reissue is very satisfactory and gear is not a central concern. Of the three, the Princeton seems like the central choice. Many thanks for your reply.

Tom

[Jimmy Mack]

You are welcome sir, and I apologize for preaching. I too want thrilling tone, but mostly at the gig.

Yes, a Princeton Reverb. Too many favorable reviews!!! Aaaaannnd...
I too have the midrange boost pot on mine (thumbs up PT Christopher)! What a wonderful addition. Makes single coils sound like H/bers, and vice versa. Best thing since reverb!!! The pot is located on the rear panel, replacing some unused appliance there.

[SamBooka]

You know, if you work on your technique a little bit you would not even need an amp

Sorry: inside joke, I could not resist
Don't forget to let us know how it works out

[Jimmy Mack]

To ice the cake, my favorite pedal to use with my Princeton Reverb, which is not a re-issue, but a modded 70's model, is the Boss '59 Bassman.

It adds a whole 3 band EQ, plus Gain, plus Presence and a full tone with the looser feel of a real '59 Bassman.

This allows a real kick-ass boost, or just a fattening of the tone, but I just love what it does for my tone and my playing. May be the answer to your tone quest without having to mod the amp. The right tubes can also make a huge difference, but that can get pricey too.

[tfaux]

Jimmy, thanks.
After all this posting I've now got visions of hand wired boutique amplifiers haunting my dreams, but the Princeton/pedal solution may be the most elegant. So many lovely things to ponder...

Sam, technique?? With unlimited pedal combinations who the hell needs technique?

cheers! And thanks!!

Tom

[D.G.]

Princeton is my idea of perfect tone. YMMV.