Solid state amp with a soft feel and tube-like depth?

**Greaser** · 11-30-2012, 07:04 PM

Would putting a compressor pedal in front of a SS amp help get what I'm looking for? I've never had a compressor...

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-30-2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

Would putting a compressor pedal in front of a SS amp help get what I'm looking for? I've never had a compressor...

That would be the opposite of soft. It would makes the notes pop more.

**J. Murrieta** · 11-30-2012, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

That would be the opposite of soft. It would makes the notes pop more.

and the drum roll!

**whosgarethparry** · 11-30-2012, 08:07 PM

i get good results from a Sansamp para di, which has it's own thread somewhere, into a Henrikssen. the sansamp really does a lot to give it tube charcteristic, a subtle appliction of the drive control can lead to some 'fat' sounds indeed.
that said, if you're a blues player who is used to the tube sound, i feel you're really gonna struggle to recreate the same sound and feel that you are used to.

Mr B summed it up the best,
solid state are clean, loud and small, 2 of which a tube amp isn't

**jorgemg1984** · 11-30-2012, 08:43 PM

Well a twin is clean and loud...

I would recommend a clean boost, it works wonders with non-master volume ss amps.

**Greaser** · 11-30-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Well a twin is clean and loud...

I would recommend a clean boost, it works wonders with non-master volume ss amps.

I'm just gonna have to buy one and experiment, maybe change out some op-amps and stuff like you were talking about in another thread.

Any recommendations for a oldie/cheapie that I could fool around with?

**jorgemg1984** · 11-30-2012, 10:38 PM

While I never tried one the old Yamaha G series seem great. Also old Polytones, some Fenders like the M-80, Peaveys like the Bandits, 80s Roland cubes, Standel, Lab Series, Session... some of these can be found dirt cheap. For jazz the Baxandall Yamaha or Polytone should be perfect.

They usually benefit from OPA2134 (if it's the case) and a speaker swap. Something like a Jensen Neo / Tornado can make on of those amps quite light... they usually work great as a pedal platform and like some clean boost for fattening the sound.

I tried some of these mods on some of those amps. Not everything worked always perfectly, I remember the Bandit didn't like a Jensen Tornado, one must be open to some trial and error...

I never bounded with compressors and I tried...

**mcahoon** · 11-30-2012, 10:38 PM

Tube amps are clean, loud and small, choose any two?

**Roberoo** · 11-30-2012, 11:07 PM

I agree with Jim about modelling - that is the way to go for a working jazz guitarist. I am in my 40s and want to grab and use a small, reliable amp with lots of head-room and be able to carry it (in one go) with my guitar and other gig gear. Currently, to do so, I am using a Roland Cube 30x with an arch top. It sounds great, has a silent tuner, and has never failed during four years of about 80 gigs a year. That said, to soften the sound from the Cube I dropped am Eminence Alnico 10" Red Fang (at $180) and it just made it sound absolutely amazing. Depending on the situation I would toggle between the Jazz Chorus model, the Fender Blackface, the Vox AC30 and the Tweed. models and they all could be made to sound good. The over-drive models are good for blues but i don't play that style very often any more. Sadly, a sharp object destroyed the speaker (long story) and I decided to replace the speaker with an Eminence Little Buddy speaker (with a hemp cone) (about $90) and it sounds great but not as great as the Alnico.

Having said all that, a couple of my students have appeared with Roland Cube "XLs" (the latest iterations of the Cubes) and I must say they sound better than the old models.

All that said, I love the sound of a great tube amp but experience has told me that are too heavy and cannot be trusted over a 100 gig a year schedule. In fact my favourite sounding amp gave up the ghost on the second night of an important gig and after that I gave up tubes for gigging forever.

Rolands are not the best amps (by far) but for a working guitarist they are a very good option.

**jorgemg1984** · 12-01-2012, 07:53 AM

Just to give a different view - current Roland Cubes are terrible imo. I have to use them in my Conservatory all the time and it's a pain to my ears... Although I never tried a new speaker in there. The old 80s ones sound much better. And the 30X is not enough for most gigs I play...

**Uncle Meat** · 12-01-2012, 08:52 AM

Does anyone here use a compressor with a SS amp to replicate the feel of a tube amp?

**jorgemg1984** · 12-01-2012, 09:03 AM

Oh another option - getting a flat ss amp like an henriksen and putting a Barb EQ pedalk in front or one of the Tech 21 ones.

**vejesse** · 12-01-2012, 09:12 AM

I've played tons of gigs on a Roland cube 60 modelling amp. The J.C. clean sound is basically fine with an archtop and the "classic stack" modeller is decent for fusion type sounds. But I had some re occurring problems where the effect pot would quit working right. Huge digital delay you couldn't get rid of! It finally became unreliable and impractical to repair as the super cheap board mounted pots were difficult to fix. You could actually get in there and re align the sweeper in the pot but when other pots started doing it I said enough. The sixty watt version was loud enough for most jazz gigs but I'm sure the 30 watt version would not have been.

For the last three months I've been using a Tech 21 Trademark 60 I got used for $300 (just a little more than the Roland) and I feel it's a significantly better amp than the Roland. I can get a really good sound out of a 335 with the clean side - take the gain up to about half way or a little more and the sound is fat without being distorted. With the Roland, the "Blackface" model could approach that but it just didn't sound as good. An archtop guitar sounds a little different with the Trademark 60, a little more "colored" with the mids but it's not a bad sound.

The Tech 21 also makes a great fusion amp. As was mentioned earlier by someone, on the dirty channel if you bring the gain down all the way the sound is still very clean but gives you some compression and sustain. With a Strat think Frank Gambale's sound on the Centrifugal Funk album. With a 335 it's Larry Carlton.

I was an early user of the Line 6 modelling amps but the first ones were unreliable and looking back I think the sound was a little thin. They're better these days and I know people who are happy with the pod, but they use the pod for lead sounds. Right now I'm happy with the analog stuff, it's reliable and it sounds good. Plus, I'm a plug and play guy so I don't want a ton of parameters to fiddle with, just a simple rig that sounds good.

I also have a Polytone 80 watt mini brute with reverb and that sounds good with an archtop, but other than that it's a one trick pony. If I was going to check out another Roland I would try the Cube 80. The Hendriksen and Evans amps I'd like to check out as well.

**Double 07** · 12-01-2012, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

With some serious tweaking and the right cab, I think they succeed incredibly well. In a way they can also give you the best of both tubes and solid state: tube-like tonal response with solid state headroom. I'm two plus years into modeling and it's by far the happiest I've ever been with any setup.

Yes I think amp modelling has come a long way since it was first introduced. When it first came out to my ears most of the modellers were really bad IMO. Now however I've heard alot of excellent tones coming from modellers and modelling amps. In another thread where I recently wrote that SS distortion, in general, sounds terrible I was speaking of regular SS amps. The digital modelling wave at this point can be considered it's own new category IMO. Yes I've really been impressed by some of the sounds I've heard coming from modellers lately.I definitely would not hesitate to use modelling now. However I still think there is certain nice "feel" that comes from a real tube amp that's hard to put into words that still modellers haven't been able to duplicate. Hopefully someday they'll even be able to model that feel as well

.

**feral guitar** · 12-01-2012, 02:27 PM

anyone here gig on a modeling rig?
not modeling amp but modeler into pa?

**Jim Soloway** · 12-01-2012, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by tucson matt

anyone here gig on a modeling rig?
not modeling amp but modeler into pa?

Not into a PA (I never play anywhere that actually has a PA) but into a power amp and flat response wedge speaker. In fact, here's a photo. My Pod HD runs into this setup.

**Double 07** · 12-02-2012, 12:50 AM

Wow nice rig Jim I bet that sounds great in a club.

Pleanty of power and headroom for sure. Have you ever been curious to try the modelling rig with a tube power amp (I know Carvin makes one) to see if you hear any noticeable difference over the SS power amp?

**Greaser** · 12-02-2012, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Double 07

Wow nice rig Jim I bet that sounds great in a club.

Pleanty of power and headroom for sure. Have you ever been curious to try the modelling rig with a tube power amp (I know Carvin makes one) to see if you hear any noticeable difference over the SS power amp?

Fryette amps actually has a whole series on youtube about modelers going through SS vs tube power amps. Pretty interesting and there was a noticeable difference.

**jorgemg1984** · 12-02-2012, 08:42 AM

Interesting - for clean tones I always thought it pre tubes were much more relevant than power tubes..

**iim7V7IM7** · 12-02-2012, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Interesting - for clean tones I always thought it pre tubes were much more relevant than power tubes..

For some amps yes, and others no. Preamp, rectifier, power amp, power and output transformers, speakers and cabinet type all can matter particularly with overdriven sounds.

**jorgemg1984** · 12-02-2012, 11:25 AM

Yes with overdriven tones... but what about clean tones? Speaker and cab matter a lot but on the rest I always thought the preamp was most of the tone...

**Greaser** · 12-02-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Yes with overdriven tones... but what about clean tones? Speaker and cab matter a lot but on the rest I always thought the preamp was most of the tone...

They're all a factor for sure, but I think you'll find a more noticeable difference with pre amp tubes for clean playing. That said, I noticed a pretty big difference when I changed from 5881 to 6L6GC power tubes in my bassman, but those are different tube types.

Here's one of the videos I was talking about with the modeler into the different power amps:

**jorgemg1984** · 12-02-2012, 12:15 PM

Yes, like we talked about op amps

My question is more if you went with an hybrid I think I would prefer tube pre ss power to ss pre tube power (for clean sounds).

**Greaser** · 12-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Yes, like we talked about op amps

My question is more if you went with an hybrid I think I would prefer tube pre ss power to ss pre tube power (for clean sounds).

This is what I'm thinking of doing. Pairing a tube preamp with a jazz amp to get a sound and feel that I'm more accustomed to, but still having that warm jazz tone in a lightweight package.

I'm thinking of getting one of these: Kingsley Amplifiers - Juggler

I already have his Jester pedal and it is phenomenal. I'm sure the Jester would also do what I'm wanting, but I'd like to have both.

**mambosun** · 12-02-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

This is what I'm thinking of doing. Pairing a tube preamp with a jazz amp to get a sound and feel that I'm more accustomed to, but still having that warm jazz tone in a lightweight package.

I'm thinking of getting one of these: Kingsley Amplifiers - Juggler

I already have his Jester pedal and it is phenomenal. I'm sure the Jester would also do what I'm wanting, but I'd like to have both.

Quite costly actually, same budget as an amp...