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I've been using a Lunchbox Junior. The clean sound is great. I turn the Gain down as low as I can. It's not terribly loud - coffee shop volume - and with a little gain it seems to react like a tube amp would in that "digging in" gives a little more grit to the tone while my 1x15 Polytone bass amp remains completely flat and clean.
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12-02-2012 03:38 PM
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Or this
Originally Posted by Greaser
This is what I'm thinking of doing. Pairing a tube preamp with a jazz amp to get a sound and feel that I'm more accustomed to, but still having that warm jazz tone in a lightweight package.
I'm thinking of getting one of these: Kingsley Amplifiers - Juggler
I already have his Jester pedal and it is phenomenal. I'm sure the Jester would also do what I'm wanting, but I'd like to have both.
Blackbird Vacuum Tube Preamp
Trough a flat amp like an Henriksen should make a nice Twin Reverb sound.
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Yeah, the Blackbird looks great. I had an Effectrode Tube Vibe a while back that was very nice. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I would probably end up going with the Juggler though because its a little bit cheaper. I'm crazy about my Jester, so I'm sure the Juggler sounds great as well.
Both of the builders (Effectrode and Kindgsley) have great customer service and top shelf products and build quality. Simon (Kingsley owner/builder) is also a phenomenal guitarist.
Would putting a tube preamp like these in front of an amp like the Henriksen work well, would it take on the characteristics of the preamp?
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Yeah never tried any but they both seem great... the Barb EQ is also supposed to give a tube feel although it's ss. And it's much smaller / cheaper than the other two.
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Check this out, a new offering from Fuchs audio. From Andy Fuchs:
"Fuchs will be doing a limited run of Jazz Classic-II's, which is a hybrid jazz amp with a digital reverb, 150-Watts and a Neo speaker. A very loud and clean 112 mini combo is about 30 lbs. We should be shipping before the year is over. A few of the local jazzers (Vic Juris, Bob DeVos, and a few others) have played it in live situations and recorded with it and have orders pending. The head is $ 2200, and the combo 2400 with a Neo speaker by B&C of Italy. It sounds warm, round, tube-like, and is light and small."
He told me it has a tube preamp, footswitchable reverb and an effects loop. He sent me a picture of the amp and front panel artwork, if anyone is interested I could email you the pics. I thought I'd pass along the info. He said it won't be on their website, direct order only.Last edited by Greaser; 12-03-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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^^^ $2400 combo
The 10" single channel Mambo combo is £575, or about $925.
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For some years, I used to run a Boss GT-8 pedalboard in stereo into a Mesa 20/20 power amp, and then out into a pair of Mesa 1x12 closed cabs (w/Celestions). IMO, it was a noticeable improvement in tone and dynamic response when compared to running straight thru my pair of '80s Marshall 5210 1x12 combos (50 watt, solid-state, with equivalent Celestions—patched in via the Power Amp In, bypassing the Marshall preamp). BTW, these set-ups were used more for rock and fusion stuff—not jazz. (Hey, Jim's got room in that rack of his to fit a 20/20, too!) Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Yes, that seems like an unrealistic price compared to the Mambo and: Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
^^^ $2400 combo
The 10" single channel Mambo combo is £575, or about $925.
Henriksen JazzAmp $900,
Quilter Micro Pro 200 12 $1000,
Evans JE200 $1500,
Rivera Jazz Suprema 12 $1850,
Rivera Jazz Suprema 15 $2000.
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I happen to have a great-sounding Yamaha G-100 1x12 combo (the first series, built in the USA and, AFAIK, allegedly designed by Abe Rivera). Wonderful tone on the clean channel for jazz. (I've never used the distortion capabilities.) Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Unfortunately, I find myself not using the amp all that much since it's SUCH a heavy sucker (at least for me and my back), plus it came with a really thin strap, all the better to dig that 50-lb weight right into your hand. UGH. I'm planning on getting casters installed and considering possibly a speaker swap, but I'm concerned that it would somehow compromise the tone that I like so much. Any recommendations for maybe a Neo speaker replacement? Would the load be all that much lessened? (I know this thing'll never turn into a Clarus!) ;-)
Jorge: "For jazz the Baxandall Yamaha..." I've heard this term, Baxandall, before, but could you explain it in simple terms? Does my G-100 possibly have such a design? Thanks.
Last edited by ooglybong; 12-03-2012 at 04:23 PM.
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I agree, its not cheap, but I wouldn't call the pricing "unrealistic."
I've noticed that jazzers tend to spend more money (generally speaking) on their instruments and less on their amps. Rock/pop guitarists seem to be the opposite. I don't think either approach is invalid.
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Interesting! But it seems Fuchs is making me right, he chose pre tube and power ss Originally Posted by ooglybong
For some years, I used to run a Boss GT-8 pedalboard in stereo into a Mesa 20/20 power amp, and then out into a pair of Mesa 1x12 closed cabs (w/Celestions). IMO, it was a noticeable improvement in tone and dynamic response when compared to running straight thru my pair of '80s Marshall 5210 1x12 combos (50 watt, solid-state, with equivalent Celestions—patched in via the Power Amp In, bypassing the Marshall preamp). BTW, these set-ups were used more for rock and fusion stuff—not jazz. (Hey, Jim's got room in that rack of his to fit a 20/20, too!)
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Hi there! Originally Posted by ooglybong
I happen to have a great-sounding Yamaha G-100 1x12 combo (the first series, built in the USA and, AFAIK, allegedly designed by Abe Rivera). Wonderful tone on the clean channel for jazz. (I've never used the distortion capabilities.)
Unfortunately, I find myself not using the amp all that much since it's SUCH a heavy sucker (at least for me and my back), plus it came with a really thin strap, all the better to dig that 50-lb weight right into your hand. UGH. I'm planning on getting casters installed and considering possibly a speaker swap, but I'm concerned that it would somehow compromise the tone that I like so much. Any recommendations for maybe a Neo speaker replacement? Would the load be all that much lessened? (I know this thing'll never turn into a Clarus!) ;-)
Jorge: "For jazz the Baxandall Yamaha..." I've heard this term, Baxandall, before, but could you explain it in simple terms? Does my G-100 possibly have such a design? Thanks.
My electronics knowledge is quite limited but here it goes... I think most amps tend to have either a TMB (treble, middle, bass) tone stack (Fender, Marshall, Vox) or a Baxandall (treble, bass, sometimes mids) tone stack (Poltone, Yamaha G, Ampeg, plenty of jazz amps).
The first tend to have a mid scoop and in order to have flat frequency you end up loosing gain (controls are usually passive). The second tends to be flat with everything at 5 and no gain loss. The knobs are usually active and tend to interact much less than in a TMB tone stack.
The Yamaha G is indeed a Baxandall eq (according to what I have read).
Please someone who really know this things correct me if I made any mistake.
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As far as I know, those Yamaha amplifiers use impedance-scaled blackface Fender tone stacks. Originally Posted by ooglybong
Jorge: "For jazz the Baxandall Yamaha..." I've heard this term, Baxandall, before, but could you explain it in simple terms? Does my G-100 possibly have such a design? Thanks.
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So I was wrong! I remember some thread where someone talked about the amp's schematic and mentioned it being Baxandall.
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My G-100 has two channels with shared EQ: Treble (pull Bright), Mids, and Bass, along with an additional fully-parametric EQ section (Level, Q, and Frequency). So would this indicate either the blackface Fender tone stack -or- the Baxandall? Just curious... TIA. Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm
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My recent buy has been a 15" speaker cab to use as an external speaker to my zt acoustic lunchbox , and my finding is that the speaker or rather size of speaker makes a huge difference on ss amps
i own a few amps 4 x ss and 1 tube and 3 of them have 12" speakers which sounds good but the 15" cab makes all the amps sound fatter and warmer, and for my style of traditional sounding jazz it sounds awesome , just what i want , obviously a 15 moves more air so sounds bigger and softer and the fact that the speaker by design does not produce high frequency well means a darker , less sharp tone , which is what i want
with al gear i buy , i rather think what will fit my needs , rather than being versatile as my needs are simple and one dimensional , being a big, fat , warm , clean jazz tone which is never sharp or trebly ,
anyway this is purely my opinion and yes a 15 adds size and weight but using a 15 " speaker with any amp makes a huge difference tonaly and for my tastes gives the jazz tone i want
p.s. And yes for small intimate gigs i still just use my zt ac lb with internal speaker and it sounds great , and weights 5lb's
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Yeah, I definitely identify here. I recall being told many, many, many moons ago that jazz guitarists liked using bass amps (not that I knew any jazz guitarists back then. OK, this was back in the '60s when I was but a wee slip of a lad!) Was this true? I dunno. However, thinking back now, I suppose that could also be translated to having (1) a clean amp with lots of headroom and (2) combined with a 15" speaker for those darker tones. (Think the old Ampeg Portaflex amps, for an example. Hey, was Polytone around back then, and didn't they offer a 15" speaker in at least one model early on?) Originally Posted by Keira Witherkay
Anyway, I finally got around to hearing what a 15" speaker could do to some degree in buying an Ibanez Wholetone amp. Personally, I really like the amp a lot (shhh... Jorge ;-), so I can certainly see what you're meaning by trying a 15". Knowing what I know now, I'm a bit surprised that there aren't more 15" choices out there for jazz guitarists.
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Not to spam but if you go with our TM60 or Power Engine you can also add an additional Power Engine for more headroom. 120 watts vs 60 watts.
Tube amps can be do loud and clean but the problem is that most people don't want to carry them. Speaker system aside, a Fender Twin can be set for a fairly flat response. My friend's son does a lot of club dates and does amazing jazz chord melody playing in these situations. He decided that the Fender Twin was the best amp for that but carting it was a drag as he is not a big guy. My friend actually turned the Twin into a head so his son could lug it more easily and just use a separate 112 cab. It really comes down to how much effort and expense you want to go through for your tone.
Les Paul used our TM60 for years. When my friend Jon Herrington (Steely Dan) sat in with the Les Paul trio and used his jazz box for a few tunes he just used a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.
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I just started using a nice compressor with my JMUL, and now it's perfect for me. The only thing I really missed about tube amps was the feel, and with some knob-turning, I can approximate that enough for me.
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I have three solid state amps: Roland JC120, Roland Cube 80x and Roland MicroCube. The JC has a softish tone to it. The Cube 80x has that same sort of tone but a bit warmer, rounder and fuzzier on the JC setting.
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Which compressor are you using? No matter how much I tried I never bounded with compressors... Originally Posted by Uncle Meat
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It's a Guyatone Flip Top one. It uses a 12ax7, has knobs for a parametric eq, clean signal blend, level, attack, and compression. I always hated compressors, too, but I think the JMUL is unnaturally dynamic, which can make it pretty harsh. I haven't really tried any other compressors in a few years, so I don't know how it compares to others.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Great, glad it's working for you. Parametric eq is a must with any amp!
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Yep and the older Yamaha DS60 is virtually the same piece of kit without the XLR input - only 1/4" jack. These can be found occasionally on eBay far cheaper than the Tech 21 amp because nobody seems to know what is. Using a Tech 21 Power Engine on a Yamaha DS60 raises some intersting issues about amps. Could a powered PA speaker do the job if it had a suitable pre- amp between the guitar and speaker? Certainly the Tech 21 Sansamp box, the DG Stomp, and the J-Station are all designed to fulfill that role. Originally Posted by Tech21NYC
I only have experience with the DG Stomp and DS60 - works wonderfully and I guess the Tech 21 Sansamp and Power Engine would be the same ( but without a whole array of effects like the DG Stomp). The DS60 and Power Engine could also be used to increase the volume of any small amp - I've used one to back up a micro cube and add an extension speaker to my DeLuxe.
Since these systems can model all the amps and speakers, surley it's possbile to set it up for the sounds you want and the job's done?
As Yamaha seem to have left the amp scene now, would Tech 21 NYC like to chip in with some comments?
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So you're saying that the compressor helped soften up the feel of the solid state amp? I've never used a compressor before, so I don't really know what they do. I really like playing with dynamics (picking hard and light) to make different sounds and I heard that compressors took that away, that's why I've always avoided them. Originally Posted by Uncle Meat
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