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Hi everyone. I've a very simple question. Do any of you archtop people have any experience of archtops by Jim Trigg's? I'm seriously thinking of getting a recently made one and I can find very little on the old internet. Thanks in advance for any help.
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11-25-2012 09:30 PM
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Hi Groyniad, I've owned quite a few Triggs' including the ones in these photos. It can be tough some times to get in touch with Jim. Most of the time you leave your number and he'll call you back. What exactly do you want to know?
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Hi there - I'm really pleased to get to talk to you about this. I'm looking at one of his d'angelico copies - and I want to know about the sound and feel. I've never played anything but archtops seriously - and my two primary concerns are achieving a nice full, warm, fat sound and avoiding feedback. How have you found his guitars compare in terms of warmth with other builders - say like Campellone.
Thanks
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As you can see in the photos the guitar on the right is his 17" DA style. Which is quite different for Marks guitars even though they are the same size. Marks are lighter and more mellow acoustically. Do to his guitars being x braced. While Jim's are slightly heavier and more robust due to his parallel bracing. They are both wonderful electrically. I've never played at a volume that would cause feedback so I can't testify as to which would be better that way. If you're playing at those levels,are you certain you want to go with the fully carved guitars? There are some great laminates out there including some solid tops that might fit your needs better. For that DA styling,for example,I just picked up a Japanese made DA New Yorker that has a wonderful full woody tone that I feel would fight feedback more than a fully carved piece. I'm sure you get some more advise on this in the morning. By the way, they both make very warm 18" guitars. Here's a shot of the Japanese DA.
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So have you found that Jim's guitars are as warm sounding as Marks when amplified?
I've spent my professional life playing laminates that fed back something awful...
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Sorry, I guess that was presumptive of me. I would say that Jims' guitars would be more acoustic while Marks more electric, more of a modern jazz sound. Where Triggs' you could jump right into a Texas swing. Does that make any sense? You could check out some You Tube. I'm sure they're both on there. Hope this helps.
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It helps a lot - and that's a good way to put it - texas swing vs jazz sound. I really don't want that texas swing sound - so that pretty much settles it. This is one of those occasions when getting someone else's informed take on the topic has made all the difference.
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oh - and I could find nothing helpful on youtube at all!
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Beautiful Triggs there brother!
Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
I spoke to MC by phone on Friday, and he informed me he primarily builds parallel braced archtops, and rarely has done an X-braced archtop because he prefers parallel to x-braced as a matter of preference.
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I own a guitar which Jin Triggs made for me two years ago. It's a copy - more or less - of a Stromberg Master 400. If anything, its acoustic sound is more spread and buttery than the average archtop sound (which sounds "honky" in comparison to my Triggs). It has a great depth and it's loud. Maybe some of this this can be explained by the big body - it's 19" at the lower bout. I don't quite know what another poster means by "Texas Swing" sound but that's not what I think of when I play mine. When I compare to my 1997 Benedetto Fratello, it's much louder and seems to have an extra dimension to it's sound (sorry, Bob
). The Benedetto may be the better instrument for delicate fingerpicking, but for acoustic rhythm work and more energetic playing, the Triggs beats it.
My Triggs is parallel braced (as all of Jims archtops). It pretty heavy - much in the older tradition of big band archtops. Jims guitars are firmly rooted in the Gibson tradition - which is no surprise as he was one of the heads in the Gibson custom shop in the late 1980s and beginning of the 1990s before he went on setting up his own shop. While there, he built quite a number of L5s and Super400s.
As my guitar has no PU and will never get one, I can't comment on amplified tone and feedback resistance.
I have been following prices of Triggs guitars at various dealer web sites, especially Gruhn. Now, I only have experience from one deal, but when I compare the dealer prices to what Jim charged me, it seems like he charges the same from the dealers and they then add their own profit on top of that. So you may want to contact Jim and ask him what his price for making you a custom guitar is before buying second hand or NOS from a dealer. Like has been said, Jim is not always easy to get in contact with, and during the build process of my guitar he dropped out of e-mail contact a couple of times, but the guitar was delivered as ordered to my full satisfaction and he sent a lot of photos to illustrate the build proces as it went on.
I had read that there were only a few Triggs Stromberg copies around and they were hard to find. But when I emailed Jim and asked if he could make me one, he answered "Sure, no problem". In addition, it's my experience that he is more accomodating to customer wishes than many other luthiers.
Triggs Guitars
My Triggs Master 400: http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...e/Triggs29.jpgLast edited by oldane; 11-26-2012 at 04:08 AM.
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Groyniad, Sorry about that mistake on the Campellones'. It's been awhile since I've had one of his but I truly believed they were all x braced. Good detective work 2Bop. You should be able to type in Triggs guitars at You Tube and at least get a Cowboy Jim Darling video or more importantly type in Mike Dowling"swing guitar". That will show Mike on a beautiful Triggs Excel and give you a good idea of the guitars sound.
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Groyniad, I just typed Mike Dowling swing guitar on Google and it sent me right to it. Enjoy,the cd is great also.
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So helpful - thankyou! Is this thing Mike is playing a 18'' or 17'' it sounds great.
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That's a 17" like mine. Great sound huh? I need to ask him what strings he uses. My chromes just aren't cutting it for that sound. Then I also have to learn how to play like that. Check your PM's
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Actually brother I've just learned today, via email from MC, you're half right. Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
MC says:
" I switched to parallel bracing maybe about 7 years ago, and prior to that I built everything with X bracing. I've found, for my building style at least, that the bracing style (relative to other aspects of construction) doesn't make that much difference in terms of sound quality , and that I prefer parallel bracing for its added strength and also because, quite frankly, it's easier to do. X bracing is not in any way inferior - some of the best sounding guitars I've built are X braced."
This question came up when I was attempting to determine if the Special I was considering was Parallel or X-braced. I now know it is in fact X-braced, not Parallel braced as MC's been building for the past 7 years.
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Thanks 2Bop, Thought for a second there that my gray hair color was seeping in and effecting my gray matter. Mark and I have been friends from back in his early days that's why all my purchases were x braced. Shows how long it's been since I've seen him.
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mine-adirondack top-some new yorker style appointments-sorta cross between new yorker and san salvador
has a johnny smith pup floater
has an after purchase wood tail
heres what i can tell you
jim builds his guitars, in this case really an L5C (modeled after a D'A)
as Gibson should. Nut, frets finish, binding, woods are all top notch.
my neck a a bit slim (width wise) not too deep, single maple piece.
in a broad sense, a triggs, imho, has a feel like the best gibsons ive ever played-even old ones- its not unlike an older gibson with a slimish neck and board, one properly set up with no 'issues' -it feels 'broken in' or simply comfortable right from the beginning
depth is 2 3/4, not quite a real L5, but extremely comfortable to sit with-im 5'9" no gut medium build, medium length arms, medium hands
the guitar is really comfortable and i cannot express how very much i love this guitar
tuners grover 18:1
sound....ah the sound...accoustically its very punchy mid if you comp hard-the top seems to respond nicely to this -doesnt get mushy at all-each string is very defined and balanced-i play fingerstyle mostly, and i love it as well -pretty loud with tomastiks and much more so with bronzes
amplified its rich and jazzy, has a single vol-no tone-treble is cut a bit as i roll off vol, so i adjust things accordingly
feedback is manageable (sorta-when it goes it really goes) even with my twin on... 6-but id hafta find the right way to sit, and not closely, however-sounds really a lot like a gibson johnny smith or wesmo depending on how im playing and the amp is set up-to me-it really has the jazz sound i wanted-it is articulate, woody, alive and responsive, not at all muddy, but full and rich when amped-more present sounding than a 175 or a CES-ie not as dark-and i like this-i can control treble downwards easily and make it dark via the amp and backing off the vol-i think its rather uncolored -it sounds balanced and neutral like an accoustic archtop when plugged in-same as accoustically, but bigger-literally more volume but the same color and balance
it is really a beautifully built instrument-and i used to build flat tops and lutes so i have some appreciation for attention to details
and...the cherry finish, is by far the most beautiful i have ever seen on any guitar-im not into reds per se-but in person, it is stunningly beautiful and like a sunset on wood
his finish btw is smooth as glass and done far better than a production guitar
it is light too, id guess about 5.5-6 lbs
not super light, but still very alive-you can feel it against the chest and in the neck -ive played it rather hard, and daily, for over a year and its really opening
its very easy to play, and for long periods and intonation is true all the way up-and thats about all i can sayLast edited by stevedenver; 11-26-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Dude, those are so pretty I almost cried. Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
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so triggs can/will build most anything you like, in terms or aesthetics and the like? i wonder if he can do some old epiphone shapes, or maybe mix and match design bits from here and there to do something new. i have admired his "regular" stuff (and it did seem to be priced fairly), but i hadn't seen his cloney guitars yet. this is interesting indeed.
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Tstahle,Thank you,they are special. Almost like children,but you can sell the guitars! Feet,What a great idea! I've always been partial to the Epiphone line. Gibson has always kept it down as to not compete against their product. I'd love to talk to Jim about that one. He would surely be the one to build them.
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Steve, VERY nice. I don't know if there is anything else like yours out there. That's a special model. But I suspect it must be different in the same way a D'Angelico is different to a D'Aquisto? Lighter,wooden bridge the more modern F holes and headstock. Do you know if Jim has done any more of those?
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only one that i have ever seen
a D'A Solo clone-, totally accoustic, in the same finish, same late D'A" sparseness, with a plain headstock-same depth, but no Jimmy bridge, and important detail imho, what is made me pass on the guitar
that i almost purchased but figured it would simply be the same guitar , more or less, identical to mine accoustically
it was, imo, priced very reasonably
seems to me now, that i think, he did another in a burst with an over the top tree of life board inlay, imho garish, and with a intricate headstock inlay as well, priced , imho, stupidly by the seller at 13K-while im certain a fine guitar, that price broadens the market to the best of the best in contemporary builders, made to order-or ....a Citation if one does like flash with guaranteed market appreciation and re-saleLast edited by stevedenver; 11-27-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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Yeah,There's on for sale now that fits that description at $13,900. With a 40's DA headstock. And the inlayed board. Gruhn's had one with abalone top surround for a long time now. Same kind of money. Fancy only goes so far.
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and...while i buy instruments to keep and not for investment or resale ( i never sell anything)
simply, a triggs , imho, is a hard thing to move
and perhaps a bit harder than other contemporary builders among those that know and research archtops
(not to mean his arent top notch, but theres no info on them, to speak of-the only notoriety i know of ws Blue Guitar and Chenery connections, his mandos are a bit better known-he seems to be rather well known in the country and bluegrass circles due to hsi superb flat tops and his superb mandos-plus this is so much larger a market-he made a cool red mando for a well known country nashville doll , whose name now escapes me
price and value are intertwined
what jim does do, is offer a new guitar, of best quality and woods, made to order, for extremely reasonable prices
it seems in the after market, triggs prices can vary wildly
i passed on a new yorker for about 6700, yet i see them sometimes for much much higher, depending on subtle appointment differences
i passed also on a lovely wine CES at about 4500, a value in quality im sure, and great axe, but i couldnt get around his modern headstock and lightening bolt, nor was i thrilled with wine, and as that price was getting close enough to a gibby, i thoughtLast edited by stevedenver; 11-29-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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[quote=stevedenver;273011]and...while i buy instruments to keep and not for investment or resale ( i never sell anything)
simply, a triggs , imho, is a hard thing to move
and perhaps a bit harder than other contemporary builders among those that know and research archtops
price and value are intertwined
what jim does do, is offer a new guitar, of best quality and woods, made to order, for extremely reasonable prices
it seems in the after market, triggs prices can vary wildly
i passed on a new yorker for about 6700, yet i see them sometimes for much much higher, depending on subtle appointment differences
i passed also on a lovely wine CES at about 4500, a value in quality im sure, and great axe, but i couldnt get around his modern headstock and lightening bolt,
??????????????nor was i thrilled with wine,
??????????????? Try the Bertani Amarone . . 1992!!
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