Anyone else NOT use tone knobs on guitar or amp?

[cosmic gumbo]

If you plug this Gibson Herb Ellis into this Gibson BR6 amp, neither guitar nor amp has a tone control. Would it sound any good? Hmmm...

[Keira Witherkay]

Mmmmm well the tone and eq controls onn guitars and amps are there for a reason, cos unless you setting the sound for one specific room , then as room acoustics change so does your tone and if you perform live as the size of audience changes so does your tone , so yes tone is there to help you sculp your tone in different enviroments so use it

if you noticed your soundman will set his desk different to accomodate above reasons , if getting good sound was that straight forward we'd have no eq on amps / desks / guitars , but we do so use em and have the tone you like

btw i do like that traditional dark jazz tone ,

[jorgemg1984]

Seems to me that one might as well use a $100 guitar and a $100 amp and you could sound like most "jazz" players I hear today

This is probably the most ignorant sentence I have ever read online on the jazz guitar subject - or even maybe in general. I would love to see you demonstrate this sentence, can you provide us a clip? Besides Kurt, notorious for his bad sound, what other "modern players" can you emulate with a 200 dollars rig?

Sorry if I am coming to strong but that's a very strong sentence you have there.

About the subject - in my opinion the whole "pure" sound is myth even with flat frequency amps. Magnetic pikcups color the sound a lot so what ever comes next is designed to deal with that; most archtops don't even have enough acoustic volume for me to really get the true tone of them (so imagine teles or even semi-hollows). Electric guitars should sound coloured because of their pickups, and the tone knob is just one of the enormous amount of tiny details a guitar player has to shape his sound; sometimes using can make a bright sound bearable and others it can make a nice sound dull. Trial and error as always.

[jorgemg1984]

Sorry if I offend anyone. I only use Rosenwinkel's tone as an example of what I'm talking about. Its not the playing, simply the sound. Just trying to get others opinions on what I find to be a very interesting subject regarding jazz guitar. It just seems odd that we still, regardless of the gear, go for the same sounds of the past (with some exceptions, obviously). I think the thing that bothers me so much about it is that jazz is (for the most part) a primarily acoustic music- so why do guitar players try to "mask" the sound of the instrument?
To be honest, I myself am on the verge of quitting the electric guitar completely in favor of using an acoustic flat top exclusively (with amplification when necessary, of course). So, I just thought I'd see what others thought about it.

Jazz, as all arts, has evolved. The electric guitar is not an acoustic instrument, even an archtop (to me). Piano players have used electronics for a long time - sometimes even trumpet players use them. A flat top is hard to use in most settings I play for example, it just sounds weird.

Why do you say modern players go for the sounds of the past? I don't hear that actually and I think that's exactly what most people dislike about them, they to sound closer to rock players than the traditional jazz tone like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis. I agree sometimes the guitar sound is a little masked today but that's also true in pop / rock / blues etc.. Guitar players tend to love using effects, sometimes a little to much.

[AmundLauritzen]

When I started playing jazz, I rolled the tone knob all the way back. As time went on I realized how horrible that sounds and how it kills everything when you play with a band.

The trick is having a good guitar to begin with, so you don't need to tweak around. If you get a twangy tone, you might be picking too close to the bridge. When I was starting out, I thought my guitar was bad because I got a country western sound. But I was really playing too close to the bridge.
Once I picked closer to the neck, the mellow jazz guitar sound came alive. And I didn't have to kill the tone by rolling the tone knob off.

Most of the time, I have a neutral EQ setting on my amp and on my guitar the tone controls are both at max. Volume control on my guitar is on max when I play lead and I roll it back for rhythm. For Freddie Green comping, i roll the volume way off and just use the acoustic sound of the guitar if it's a small group and we don't play too loud.

It really depends on what kind of tone you like. I'm a fan of Jim Hall, Tal Farlow, George Benson and Bireli Lagrenes tones so I try to go for those sounds.

[Anandbhat]

I'm a huge fan of Grant Green. Somehow the tone of his guitar never sounded muffled to me. The melody lines strike out at you with so much clarity that I'd be surprised if he really 'rolled back' on the treble.

[gary mitchell]

I am not a big fan of tone knobs on guitars, I do use the tone knobs on my amps. And I do use the tone knob on my bass guitar when I play bass sometimes. But when comes to regular guitar , to me a tone knob is just waste.

[jorgemg1984]

I'm a huge fan of Grant Green. Somehow the tone of his guitar never sounded muffled to me. The melody lines strike out at you with so much clarity that I'd be surprised if he really 'rolled back' on the treble.

I think grant green used the bass 0 treble 0 mids 10 approach - if it was a Fender this would mean close to flat frequency which usually leads to a very clean crisp sound. I have no idea about his tone knob settings on the guitar...

[tedium]

Hmm interesting question but a little to simplistic in thought I think
No insult intended. As a previous poster said its a little more involved
than turning the tone down on the guitar and amp. For me I think it's
Just what sounds good and fits with the music and style. Also from the
Vibrating string to the sound waves out the speaker it all
Colours the tone of the acoustic natural guitar.

[gary mitchell]

The thing thats cool about a nice well built acoustic guitar. Is when its played with out any electronics, its sound pure and clean depending on make of guitar course. I do not want my electric guitars going tru anymore electronic's then they have to. That even includes pots, caps etc. I wish I had the money to buy are have made a tube amp,around 30 watts with just a volume knob only.And a good spring reverb.

[jorgemg1984]

I am not an expert but would one really achieve a more pure tone with such a setup Gary? Why?

I ask this run my guitars signal trough several pedals before reaching the amp.

[tedium]

Acoustic guitars don't even enter the picture for me with this question because an acoustic guitar is an acoustic guitar and if made correctly is made to be played without amplification.
An electric guitar is made to be played through an amp and although some are great acoustically you can't get past the fact that it's electric. In that process ,things in that signal path change the tone. Then your amp has a major effect on tone just the circuit design alone will do this don't even take into account how many tone controls you have. Then take into account solid state and tube amps then speaker or speakers then the cabinet design and what it's made of.
My point of this whole reply is that what is your guitars natural sound amplified supposed to sound like? Meaning there are thousands of different signal path combinations that effect your tone without even touching the controls . I don't think guitar builders make there guitars for a particular signal path.
So if you accept that there is no natural tone of your guitar when it is plugged into a bunch of electrics then
just like everything else in life it's subjective to taste.
In conclusion just play the damn thing and get a sound you like.

[gary mitchell]

I just think sometimes you can EQ something to death, but you are right about one thing. IT COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE. Thank God we all don't sound alike would that not be boring as hell.

[jorgemg1984]

I just think sometimes you can EQ something to death, but you are right about one thing. IT COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL TASTE. Thank God we all don't sound alike would that not be boring as hell.

Well now we agree!

[jorgemg1984]

Acoustic guitars don't even enter the picture for me with this question because an acoustic guitar is an acoustic guitar and if made correctly is made to be played without amplification.
An electric guitar is made to be played through an amp and although some are great acoustically you can't get past the fact that it's electric. In that process ,things in that signal path change the tone. Then your amp has a major effect on tone just the circuit design alone will do this don't even take into account how many tone controls you have. Then take into account solid state and tube amps then speaker or speakers then the cabinet design and what it's made of.
My point of this whole reply is that what is your guitars natural sound amplified supposed to sound like? Meaning there are thousands of different signal path combinations that effect your tone without even touching the controls . I don't think guitar builders make there guitars for a particular signal path.
So if you accept that there is no natural tone of your guitar when it is plugged into a bunch of electrics then
just like everything else in life it's subjective to taste.
In conclusion just play the damn thing and get a sound you like.

Yes - even if you limit yourself with a guitar / amp setup just: the pickup, amp's circuit, cabinet design and speaker are coloring the sound A LOT.

[docbop]

In conclusion just play the damn thing and get a sound you like.

I think that sums it up the best for me. It's the conviction in what you're playing that makes it sound good.

[BEACHBUM]

Tone knob? What's a tone knob? But seriously. I prefer to use a pedal EQ and Compressor. More options.

[oldane]

.... I never used the tone knobs on either the guitar or amp. I may not have always loved the sound, but what really matters to me is that it's "pure."

Anyone else go for the "real" sound of their guitar and not roll off all the tone (real sound) on either guitar or amp?

Well, I certainly go for a tone I love, may that be "pure" or not (whatever that is). To get there, I use tone controls to my hearts desire. Also, I don't know what the "real" tone of an amplifed guitar is. What's the "real" tone of a solid body guitar? I think this whole idea of looking for the "pure" and "real" tone is futile. Just imagine a conversation: "Yes, I agree, my tone is awful, but I'm proud of it because it's pure and real and that's what counts." But music is not some kind of flagellantic purification ritual. It's about enjoying the music, being enriched by it. To get there one may deliberately choose beautiful tones or ugly tones - to reach a goal which may or may not be artistic, but not to abide to some "purity" dogma.

And anyone who thinks jazz players "roll off all the tone" hasn't listened to much jazz...you can count the good players who have recorded with that dark of a tone on one hand.

+1. And I'm not one to have ever played with that sound myself.

If you get a twangy tone, you might be picking too close to the bridge. When I was starting out, I thought my guitar was bad because I got a country western sound. But I was really playing too close to the bridge. Once I picked closer to the neck, the mellow jazz guitar sound came alive. And I didn't have to kill the tone by rolling the tone knob off.

+1. The picking position is often overlooked, but it can't be overestimated. With a single coil PU and a pointed pick, I can hear a difference in sound just by moving the picking position 5mm up or down the string. I have had friends being fooled into thinking I was plying my Strat with one of the two-PU combinations by picking my one-PU jazz archtop in a position equivalent to midway between the neck and mid PU on a Strat. I get that quacky sound. BTW, the position of the PU can also influence the sound in the same way. A difference in PU placement is one of the reasons for the difference in sound between a Gibson 175 and an L4, despite the same basic body dimensions.

To continue the thoughts of the OP, where are the most "pure and real" picking positions, and where are the most "pure and real" PU placements? Such questions can't be answered. Tastes differ. We choose what we like and go with that.

[Tom Karol]

I don't like to fiddle with knobs when I'm playing, but it's not due to any philosophical aversion. I just find it annoying. OK, I'm lazy.

I set my amp at my predetermined baseline settings and modify them to tune it to the room. Then I rarely touch those knobs again.

Each guitar is different, but using my archtop as an example:
I've found that if I set both the volume and tone knobs on 8, I can play a whole duo or trio gig just using my picking technique as a variable. But if I'm playing a more pop-style song, I may temporarily set the tone control on 10. Or if I find I'm picking too hard in order to be heard when soloing, I can turn the volume knob to 10. If I'm exclusively supporting a soloist on a ballad, I may turn the tone knob down to 6. If I'm playing aggressive rhythm on an up tempo tune, I may turn the volume knob down to 6 so I can comp freely without holding back.

But I prefer to mess with the knobs as little as possible, especially in the middle of a song. Leaving them both on 8 is a good compromise ... with this particular guitar. This is just one man's opinion/methodolgy.