New Guitars vs Vintage Guitars

[AlsoRan]

Folks,
I have to deal with a lot of quality control issues in my job and I have seen and read about many business cutting corners on quality in order to maximize their profits.

My friends in the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which for you international member's information is the United States government agency that attempts to regulate the food and drug industry over here, have told me horror stories. Also, in the news we hear of all kinds of questionable practices with how our food is produced.

In the manufacturing world, products are often engineered to meet the lowest acceptable quality standard, leaving little safety cushion for errors in the manufacturing process. For instance, the thickness of a neck can be designed to be as thin as possible and inferior woods can be effectively utilized when before they may have not been used.

Also, we are in an age of "continuous improvement" which is a phrase that means you are always screwing with a product, normally with the aim of saving money, not improving it.

With personnel, we are also in the age of "more with less," which means you keep as few people as possible, which by default means you work them harder to get same output as you would with a higher number of personnel, so your payroll expenses drop. This tends to burn out even the best workers, and morale and quality suffer.

In my mind, it is easy to speculate that in these lean times, many -not all, mind you - but, many guitar companies may be taking shortcuts.

So hence my original question: As a rule of thumb, do you think it might be wiser to buy an older model of a guitar than one that is brand new?

[cosmic gumbo]

I was talking to my friend Ling Zhong, who used to work QC in a Chinese guitar factory, and she said the quality was much better when she was 8 years old, and it had slipped a bit by the time she was a QC foreman when she was 11.

[docbop]

I think guitars are far more consistent than in the past due to all the CNC machine use. With CNC costs coming down even smaller builders are using the machinery for starting instruments. That also allows them to program in changes to experiment and improve instruments. When I started playing every guitar was unique because hand controlled manufacturing. I remember when going to buy a Fender you'd play a lot of guitars trying to find one you liked.

But like all companies trying to increase margins they have looked for other ways to cut COGs, thinner metal parts, slightly smaller bodies to get more from same amount of wood, underwinding PUPs to save wire and on and on. So you have to know what you buying.

So have to do your research know what your looking for, but tough part is brick and mortar stores are closing so shopping online makes checking instruments out first hand is now a pain.

[Patrick2]

I'm not at all concerned.

[tedium]

I'd say I'd be more concerned buying an older one due to the fact the money they demand, finding a good one at a fair price is a challenge. Yes some of today's guitars have some quality issues but I think as a whole they are a lot more consistent , I don't think age alone makes a good guitar and some of the quality of the old ones wasn't good either.

[AlsoRan]

You are starting to calm my fears...

[stevedenver]

interesting question

i think, by far, we live in a period when guitars and mandos and other instruments offer high quality , in all levels of price

as one who went through the offering of the 60s-70s and beyond-guitars are so much better overall-sound, cosmetics and playability-i remember when there were about half a dozen US commerical makers or so and only a couple from asia-with little competition, there was little incentive -and far less choice-i am amazed how one can now find almost exactly what you dream of in a stock offering

they arent the same though, inlays are lasered, the material MIGHT be abalone or paua, or may be great looking plastic-

overall the technical superiority of computer aided cutting and shaping is far more consistent

i believe this is truly a second golden era

i do see the largest companies, with the most margins and the most overhead doing what they can to cut costs-

wood, and particularly exotics, like ebony, rosewood, mahogany, especially of highest quality, etc, are much more expensive

i am put off by martin using synth wood for some of thier lower end guitars, gibson using laminated boards on les pauls etc=-its the idea, its not traditional,

whether it makes any difference in sound or function -probably none-and most buyers at this level dont even know about the changes



the biggest change -more to chose from-much more know how among builders

if you want the best of hands on, finely tuned and fitted and finished-you go to one of the many luthiers out there now-also very competitive





i like higher end stuff but
i played a $300 PRS santana like bolt on which i thought was superb
-ive played asian strats, asian hollw bodies, asian accoustics-simply wonderful instruments

played many a $2500 or so, martin hd 28
-still a superb guitar -and a great value

ditto on gibson accoustics in the same range-

seems like overall qc is pretty darn good


the biggest change a'comin (or here already) will be woods-i already see non-traditional woods being offered-blackwood, walnut, bubinga, etc in applications replacing mahog, rosewood, etc-


guitarists are traditional, the future will not be

[gary mitchell]

I have a friend I won't say his name who work maybe 10 yrs for a famous American guitar company, and some of his family is still there. He told me you might be getting a USA made are not, you could be getting one with USA Decals are what ever on the head stock and maybe USA electronics; In other words you may be getting over sea's body with American neck are head stock are decal you don't know. But still paying top dollar. Me and a friend have been buying up old guitars like the Peavey USA Predators, and others we can find other brands. If need be we repaint them new pickups, CTS pots Switchcraft. We have found some of the old Predators set up right, are just has good as any Fender strat . My USA Fender 2006 P bass can't hold a candle to my 1962 USA P bass.

[Jim Soloway]

No concern at all. There are incredibly well made guitars in every price range and in every style.

[Flint]

It really is very difficult to find a bad new guitar today. Yes, glitches happen during the manufacturing process, and these are not always caught. Less often now than in the past, I think.

[gary mitchell]

I didn't say they were all bad guitars. But I am 61 yrs old been playing since I was 15. Been playing pro, for about 30 yrs and also worship in church 25 yrs. I played Southern Rock, Blues,Rock and some Metal. Played a lot of bars and most of all played with guys my age who have kept there guitars and bass guitars made in the 50 and 60's and 70's. I own a 2010 Les Paul it can't touch the sound and the fell of my 70's LP Standard. I have a 2002 Godin Exit -22 I loaded with Toneriders Blues classic pickups nice guitar, not like my friend 62 strat are his 2001 like his 62 strat. The 62 is just a better guitar all around. I love carvin guitars some of them like the bolt, they are made buy computers the pickups need to be change but nice guitars .

[PTChristopher]

>>> Are you concerned about the quality of today's guitars vs. older ones?

No concern whatsoever. The consistency and quality is better now.

[Klatu]

>>> Are you concerned about the quality of today's guitars vs. older ones?

No concern whatsoever. The consistency and quality is better now.

Agree 100%. The high end guitars have always been excellent and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. The biggest advance is in the low end student instruments. In the past, a student instrument was typically a miserable instrument with terrible appearance and even worse fretwork and action. Nowadays, student instruments are imported from the far east and are very fine guitars worthy of taking the stage.

The same can be said of cars. Think of the bottom of the barrel cars made 30 years ago. The Geo Metro and Yugo were cars were pretty awful whereas a bottom of the range car now is very fine indeed (think the Mazda 2, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa).

[Bluedawg]

I've seen a steady improvement in quality and attention to detail compared to the guitars I saw for sale new in the late 70s and early 80s

Cheap guitars are leaps and bounds better than they were back then as well.

The biggest issue on the horizon seems to be the availability of certain woods ... some shortages may really be due to real environmental threats but I susupect heavy handed government silliness will be an issue as well.

[Clamps]

Everybody claims that things aren't like they used to be...but as players I think that we should be able to separate the wheat from the chaff

[Spook410]

Without actual metrics across the industry, it's hard to say. From a purely anecdotal point of view, I'm pretty happy with what I can get in the $1K-$1.5 factory guitar range.

[Patrick2]

Everybody claims that things aren't like they used to be...but as players I think that we should be able to separate the wheat from the chaff

What's chaff??

[Klatu]

What's chaff??

It's the husk of the wheat plant that is not eaten.

[Spook410]

What's chaff??

Small aluminum foil bits dropped from planes in WW2 to confuse early radars.

[rpguitar]

Chaff is the discarded part of the wheat stalk. It's also the very thin skin that burns away when green coffee beans are roasted.

Woody Allen's excellent movie Midnight in Paris explores the concept of "Golden Age Thinking," which we certainly do a lot of in guitar-land.

[davelang]

Cheap guitars now are a lot better quality than the Harmony strat copy I got in high school! And vintage Gibsons seem to be getting cheaper on eBay these days as well.

Perhaps the best of both worlds!

The Epiphone Hound Dog I bought for playing outside had lots of "detail" problems. Even Epiphone didn't know the neck radius was 20" instead of 12" on their website and they haven't bothered to change the info even though I emailed them about it. They don't really seem to care about stuff like that.

But the guitar was fundamentally sound, and after I set it up it played pretty well. It is a good cheap platform for improvements. Almost like a guitar kit!

[Dark Star]

I was talking to my friend Ling Zhong, who used to work QC in a Chinese guitar factory, and she said the quality was much better when she was 8 years old, and it had slipped a bit by the time she was a QC foreman when she was 11.

I would have thought it would be much better. You can get pretty good at a job working 16 hrs a day.

[PTChristopher]

>>> excellent movie Midnight in Paris explores the concept of "Golden Age Thinking,"

I really liked Midnight in Paris. Fun movie, and brought me back to my days of voting at Harry's Bar in the '88 and '92 elections. My Moveable Feast.

As mentioned, the AMAZING improvement has been in the low end of the market, where it is getting really hard to find a bad guitar. Squire, Epi, etc. really put out some very gig-worthy instruments.

But in my opinion, even the midrange of the market is better now than 30 to 40 years ago.

Maybe some of the opinion about older guitars is "Golden Age Thinking", but also I find much of it to be, "I was better back then (as were my unnamed anecdotal friends and nearly-believable experiences), therefore guitars were better too."

OR,...

"I have unique insight and experiences that are not available to you, so they (and the associated guitars) are better, and this is due to something that I uniquely appreciate and experience."

But the actual guitars? There are so many fine ways to get a great axe up and running these days. A $400 guitar can be set up to play great, and modern individual luthier-build guitars seem to have benefitted in the extreme from better understanding and sharing of info.

It is all better in my opinion.

Chris

[robertm2000]

The question isn't the guitar quality - it's my playing! I don't play well enough to worry about the cost of a guitar. Best sounding guitar I've played is made with a $140 Fender Squier neck and Pete Biltoft pickups. Believe me, even at that price point you can hear the flubs in my playing. I suspect that really good players would sound great on a cheapo junker.

[ronjazz]

Apart from acoustic guitars, classical and flamenco guitars, etc., it's getting rather silly to pay thousands for an electric instrument. The Greg Bennett Samick line is mostly pro-quality for 20% of what you'd pay for the big names, and the archtop electric I finally was entirely happy with after 40 years of Gibsons, Guilds, etc., etc., was $700 brand-new, from the Samick factory as well. In fact, I think one is more apt to find quality problems in the high-end big name instruments than in the Asian factory-built ones. A shame, but generally true.