New Guitars vs Vintage Guitars

[tedium]

There does seem to be a type of thinking when it comes to old gear being the best.
I'd say its more a nostalgia thing personally because to us it seemed the 50's , 60's and 70's were the best players, best amps and best guitars because that is what we knew.
I do agree the future with the rare woods could change things but I don't think it will but time will tell.
There are some great makers out there and some great instruments, I would love to do a double blind test and see how many people actually pick out the vintage over the new.

[marcwhy]

Folks,
So hence my original question: As a rule of thumb, do you think it might be wiser to buy an older model of a guitar than one that is brand new?

My guitars happen to be from "boutique" luthiers, and are of the highest quality, so no, I'm not concerned. [and no, they are not "super-expensive" models, either]

[RonD]

My Prestige Heritage Hollow is the best guitar I have ever owned. while it's not "cheap", it's certainly not the type of price being asked by Gibson, PRS, Fender CS, etc... I have owned guitars by all of them.
Bottom line, I agree that this is definitely a "Golden Age"!
Oh, IMO...

[tedium]

To answer your question , if you want to have a playing instrument of good quality , buy a newer guitar.
If you want an investment of good quality buy a vintage guitar.

[aja]

I think the quality is better across the board in so much as one can purchase a well made guitar no matter what the budget allows.
This was not always the case in say the 60's as I remember my first guitar purchased for me at 12 years of age looked the goods but was totaly unplayable.

[mambosun]

In fact, I think one is more apt to find quality problems in the high-end big name instruments than in the Asian factory-built ones. A shame, but generally true.

My luthier said exactly the same, when I asked him about quality issue I could expect if buying chinese/ korean/Indonesian guitars instead of the one' s with big names, his reply was "don't worry about this", those are very good.

He too sells high priced guitars but has to inspect most of them and, prior to deliver it to his customer, sometimes must correct the kind of defaults (frets, neck, electronics etc..) you should'nt expect at this price, (BTW, more problems with Gibson than Fender )

He has less problems with asian productions.

Apart from this, as described in another thread, I recently had the opportunity to play different ES175's in a shop, amongst them some vintage, and tone or playablity wise, the one I prefered was a 1996 model.

[gary mitchell]

I have a Prestige Heritage Standard LP, its a very nice guitar. I paid $700.00 for it new, I have seen now it has gone up in price. But it doesn't hold a candle to my 70's Les Paul Standard. Here is the deal, I am not sure what year maybe early 90s late 80s, I bought a brand new Gibson ES335 in Wichita Ks. for $600.00. Some of us old farts held on to them and can compare them, but the guitars today are not to bad. Because of computers and overseas slave wages, the cheaper line guitars are alot nicer. I love Ibanez Japan has some very good luthiers and China.

[Keira Witherkay]

Yep mid range guitars are actually at a standard that may with a few hardware mods threaten brands 5x their price , which was not true till fairly recently , but lets face it most musicians are brand sluts and want that " respected/historic" name on the headstock and can't see past that so despite mid range guitars being hugely improved to yesteryear few will acknowlage it,
and now before buying that gibson or vintage guitar at top dollar one can go to many small luthiers who offer amazing instruments at competitive prices

so yes i'm not concerned

[docbop]

People always talk about old instruments, but they don't factor in that most they see/hear/play now are the few excellent instrument to survive. That lots of so-so or worse instruments were made in past and aren't around anymore so it create myth of old is automatically good.

[mambosun]

When I started to learn playing guitars, some 30 years ago, the cheap models were'nt as good as today, which really was a pitty, because you had to painfully make progress with a less than decent instrument.
My very first guitar was a bad copy of stratocaster, it's neck was as thick as a log !
When I look at today cheap guitars overcrowed offers, I often wonder where is the need for spending more?

[Patrick2]

When I started to learn playing guitars, some 30 years ago, the cheap models were'nt as good as today, which really was a pitty, because you had to painfully make progress with a less than decent instrument.
My very first guitar was a bad copy of stratocaster, it's neck was as thick as a log !
When I look at today cheap guitars overcrowed offers, I often wonder where is the need for spending more?

mambosun . . . if you are wondering about that . . . and you have to ask that question of yourself or others . . . then, for you, there is no need to spend more. But, I don't believe for one second that you don't already know the answer to that question. Is there nothing in your life that is far and away more expensive than something similar that would have made do perfectly well?? Do you have a significant other in your life? If so, did you choose the first suitable one you found? One that "serves the purpose" adequatly? Probably not. Everyone has their own reasons for buying the things they buy. Guitars are a very special catagory of those "things". So then, why does everyone assume . . . presume might be more appropriate . . . that everyone buys a guitar for the same reason??

Quick story (I love telling stories) illustrating my point. I got a call from a friend who knew I was looking for a nice ES 175. He told me there was one up at Rutherford Music Exchange, in Rutherford NJ. I called the owner, Eddie Capauano . . . told him I was Vinny Currao's student. He said "yeah . . I got one here . . it's real nice". I went to the store. He showed me the guitar. It was a severely tampered with, altered player. I passed on it. He then said to me . . . "ya know, the Heritage Golden Eagle is a much better guitar and for less money and I've got two here on the wall". I said . . . "yeah . . . I saw Vinnie's. I know they're better than the 175s". He said . . . "then why the hell would you sill buy a 175??" I said . . . "because I don't have any . . and I want one".

Eddie passed away years ago . . . but never really understood that concept. I hope you can get your hands around it before you move on to your next life.

[mambosun]

mambosun . . . if you are wondering about that . . . and you have to ask that question of yourself or others . . . then, for you, there is no need to spend more. But, I don't believe for one second that you don't already know the answer to that question. Is there nothing in your life that is far and away more expensive than something similar that would have made do perfectly well?? Do you have a significant other in your life? If so, did you choose the first suitable one you found? One that "serves the purpose" adequatly? Probably not. Everyone has their own reasons for buying the things they buy. Guitars are a very special catagory of those "things". So then, why does everyone assume . . . presume might be more appropriate . . . that everyone buys a guitar for the same reason??

Quick story (I love telling stories) illustrating my point. I got a call from a friend who knew I was looking for a nice ES 175. He told me there was one up at Rutherford Music Exchange, in Rutherford NJ. I called the owner, Eddie Capauano . . . told him I was Vinny Currao's student. He said "yeah . . I got one here . . it's real nice". I went to the store. He showed me the guitar. It was a severely tampered with, altered player. I passed on it. He then said to me . . . "ya know, the Heritage Golden Eagle is a much better guitar and for less money and I've got two here on the wall". I said . . . "yeah . . . I saw Vinnie's. I know they're better than the 175s". He said . . . "then why the hell would you sill buy a 175??" I said . . . "because I don't have any . . and I want one".

Eddie passed away years ago . . . but never really understood that concept. I hope you can get your hands around it before you move on to your next life.

I fully agree with you, but Patrick please don't do the "black and white trick", in life there's always room for an extensive shad of grey; when I said, "why spending more", It doesn't necessarily means I would always buy the cheaper options.

As you explained there are several other reasons behind the need to buy the "real stuff" (affective, nostalgia, the dream of your life, etc..) as every human being does.

I'm definitively not the kind of guy who says, don't let you dream comes true, and I know, one day I may end up buying a real L5 or Es175, obviously not for rational reason.
But when we are bite buy the GAS bug, we all have to ask us this kind of question at the first place: is it for sound/ tone purpose I would necessarily buy a big name guitar or is for something else?
Do we always have to accept paying astronomic/obscene asked price in order to get a real good jaz guitar?
Are those prices exclusively connected with "pure value" of the guitar or anything else than pure speculation?

[boatheelmusic]

Hey Guys-

I've got a four pickup, chrome pick guard Teisco Del Ray and a Silvertone Twin Twelve from 1966 I'll let go in trade for an inferior, new Gibson L-5 Wes Montgomery.

Fair trade, methinks.........

[lpdeluxe]

I still have my first guitar, a '60s Ventura jumbo flat top. It came with plastic dots on the fingerboard and a black plastic overlay on the peghead with the logo in plastic "mother of pearl," back and sides of mahogany laminate, and a top with a nice spruce veneer over discarded Filipino packing crate mahogany plywood with floor-joist braces. I paid $35 for it in 1971, and it was worth every penny. It was also typical of its era: cheaply and quickly made, with the emphasis on appearance. It embodied all the bad connotations "Japanese made" had back in that era.

I look at the equivalent current crop, and I see much more playable and better made instruments, that sound better, to boot. CNC machines, as noted, have made a big difference, as have advances in laminate technology. I owned a couple of '90s Epiphones (a Bluegrass resonator model and a Sheraton II) that, within the constraints of their price, were well made. I would say the same about a '90s Samick L-5 knockoff I had, which was made in the same factory as the Sheraton.

What about the higher end? Well, I don't have a lot of experience in playing and owning a whole lot of guitars, but I can say with confidence that my '63 Gretsch Chet Atkins was, overall, not that great a guitar. When I sold it in '07 (I bought it in '82) the plastic parts were beginning to deteriorate, the neck needed an expensive reset, and the tone changed rather for the worse as you went up the neck.

I replaced it with a '70 Les Paul Deluxe from the dreaded Norlin era, and it was a much better instrument, with the best sound I have ever gotten from a Les Paul. But it had that heavy pancake body, and in the end I couldn't abide the weight.

I now have an '00 ES-335, which seems to be flawless. It's my last electric guitar. I read a lot of griping about quality of the current Gibsons, but my own experience has been the opposite (I also had an '07 SG which was probably my last solid body, but I traded it off for reasons of ergonomics rather than quality).

So my own take is that guitars are getting better. Don't like laminated fingerboards? Welcome to the 21st century, and the diminishing supply of high end woods. Afraid that your new guitar won't be what you want? This response is easy: don't buy online. I drove 310 miles each way to buy the 335 in person. Take the trouble. You're going to be holding that guitar close to you for a long time, if it's the right one.

And why do I still have that Ventura? About 20 years ago I had a luthier friend replace the top with a nice solid bearclaw spruce one, with proper bracing and a compensated bridge saddles, and I installed Gotoh tuners; it sounds like a piano and is a great acoustic. I had the luthier leave the "Ventura" label inside as a joke.

[bananafist]

On the subject of 'quality' I've not seen any comments regarding the MOP Gibson logos and 'flowerpot', crown' "inlays". I used to own a 2000 ish ES355 - from new, and whilst it looked ok to start with, it was quite clear on looking carefully that the "inlay" was a piece of MOP of irregular shape roughly like the logo or crown, etc., which had then been oversprayed with not-very-opaque black paint in the shape of the logo or crown. If others (often less expensive makes)can laser cut and inlay proper logos, details, why can't a top company like Gibson? I sold the ES by the way.
I know of two small individual builders in the UK who have their logos laser cut and inlaid into faceplates and if they can afford to do it on a very small = expensive scale, why can't the big guys, who do thousands.
It is another reason why I would still choose an older L5 say over a more recent one.

[bananafist]

To illustrate the above comments this is a photo of a 90s Centennial guitar with diamond dot to the 'i'.
Hardly 'skilled craftsmanship' on a special limited edition guitar. Don't misunderstand me, I have huge respect and admiration for the Gibson marque, its so sad to see this sort of work from them.