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How can you find out what type of finish is on your guitar?
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08-15-2012 09:38 PM
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>>> How can you find out what type of finish is on your guitar?
Pretty easy in most cases. Although there are a few oddball finishes out there, like lacquer over polyurethane, to appease the crowd.
But rather than slog through how to figure it out, can you just tell us what the guitar is? That may make for a much quicker answer than a long and dull explanation.
Chris
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1981 Es-175
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The factory finish would be nitrocellulose lacquer on your guitar.
Chris
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Factory finish it is.
Thank you very much.
One more question. I started playing the guitar with short sleeves during the summer months. Consequently the guitar got dull spot from the contact of my skin of my upper right arm on the lower bout. I didn't notice this until it was to late.
I tried to get rid of it by cleaning and rubbing it but no avail. How can I get rid of the dull spot.
Is there a polish you could recommend for overall polishing?
Thanks for you help PT.Last edited by edh; 08-16-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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>>> I started playing the guitar with short sleeves during the summer months.
Surely there is a thong joke here somewhere.
>>> How can I get rid of the dull spot.
AND
>>> Is there a polish you could recommend for overall polishing?
As mentioned in this very thread, I suggest the following:
Zymol Cleaner Wax - This is really a sort of polish. Do not use it as if it is a wax, rather put a little on a cloth and wipe it on and off with no wait for it to dry.
For cloth, I really like cotton cloth diapers washed a few times first. They are both aggressive due to the coarse weave, and mild due to the cotton.
If the Zymol does not do it (and it probably won't), then you go to DEFCON 2, which is:
Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0
Use cloth diapers again. The Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0 has an extremely mild abrasive in it. It will most likely get rid of the haze. Do a small area at a time and don't rub too hard. After that yu can try the Zymol again, and you'll probably be all set.
Beyond the Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0 you need to get into compounds that can do harm, like removing the finish on the binding edge. So only go to the next step if you sort of know what you are doing:
3M Perfect-It 3000 (not the "fast" cut) rubbing compound.
This stuff will take out noticeable scratches. Follow up with the Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0, and then the Zymol if you want.
As you can imagine, for new finishes you first sand up to 800, 1000, or even 1200 grit), then go to a strong compound on a cloth (or strong stick compound on a buffing wheel), then a finer compound.
Many do not ever use a polish.
So work backwards and only get as strong as needed to fix the arm haze.
This is all in my opinion. There are also many similar products that will likely work just as well for you. I just mention what I use and know to work well.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 08-16-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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wow . . that's a pretty long bit of instructions there PT. I was just going to suggest using a grade #1 steel wool pad affixed to an air driven DA tool that he could probably borrow from an auto body shop as the initial step . . then followed up with a 50 grit sand paper on an orbital sander. But, not to apply too much pressure with either.
But, in all seriousness . . . Virtuouso Cleaner and Polish . . . two separate steps. First, the cleaner with a micro fiber cloth . . . then the polish with a pre washed diaper. The Virtuouso products are pretty expensive. But, they worked on the arm haze on my guitar exceptionally well in just one application.
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I've not tried the Zymol but I feel the same about the 'Music Nomad' range, the 'Guitar Wax' one is especially luxuriant and the 'Guitar Detailer' to finish with is amazing. They're non-toxic and 100% biodegradable too! They are a US company but readily available in the UK.
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So there you go, a couple of other suggestions from guys who have shined up a guitar or two.
Just some almost-thoughts regardless of the product you use:
- Don't rub very hard, particularly as the cloth gets dry. You can create a remarkable amount of friction/heat (especially on sharp edges) and modern softer lacquers can get really soft as they get really hot.
- Don't extensively buff out the same spot twice a year. If you dull the finish in a particular area when playing, buffing this area will slightly add to the net wear. Try the various polishes suggested here to see if you can keep the problem area a bit more slippery and less prone to wear and dulling.
- The classic goof-up is to wear through the finish on the edge of the binding. I suggest making a careful point to not even touch the edge of the binding unless you are very used to this sort of thing.
- Understand the goo you are using. Is it abrasive (like the Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0) or is it a cleaner/wax/polish? Is it going to leave much behind? Do you let it dry, then lightly buff - or do you wipe it mostly off while still damp?
- Seriously consider avoiding silicone. It will not damage the lacquer - really. But it can get into scratches and make a finish repair (if ever needed) a more extensive and costly project.
- Rubbing/Buffing a polyurethane finish will be a much more aggressive proposition. It will take longer and require more material removal to deal with scratches. On the other hand, the finish is less easily damaged or worn through - but it can be done,...
All in my opinion. Other experiences may vary.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 08-17-2012 at 08:02 AM.
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I decided to drink the Zymol cool-aid. It's good that it doesn't contain petroleum distillates so it shouldn't curl the pickguard off the acoustic. The label does say it is Not recommended for ...wood or simulated wood...
I cautiously applied Zymol to a lacquer finished wood cabinet and found the caveat. It leaves trace colored residual in anything that is not finished - e.g., F Holes, pickup rings, wooden tailpiece, etc. I'll know in a couple days if it dries clear or colored. The result wasn't noticeable but the finish I treated wasn't much more than a month old and didn't really need treatment.
At 1/4 the cost of Virtuoso polish, I'll keep experimenting. I have a couple guitars from the 70's that may benefit from this.
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Zymol is fine over lacquer and polyurethane finished wood. It is not for use directly on wood or anything with fine texture/crevices. The Zymol will get into the crevices and remain blue. It is easy to clean out with water (or a very small amount to of Windex).
A crazed lacquer finish should also not get Zymol or any other treatment that will reman in the crevices or get into the wood.
I think I am regretting comments on suggesting applying absolutely anything whatsoever to a guitar.
Chris
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I'm truly enjoying your posts and comments and thank you for the direction. Your experiences are far more diverse than mine. I just worried about the person who applies this to their box and gets some on the (unfinished) wood bridge or inside of the F-hole.
Originally Posted by PTChristopher
Another no-no is getting the wood wet under the finish. I'd be cautious about taking anything off the inside edge of an F-hole with fluid. If the grain pops under the finish you've got a new set of problems to fix.
You're doing an excellent job outlining experiences beyond mine and opening new doors; I see that to be the reason forums exist. I'm not doubting anything you've said. I'm trying to outline the troubles I'd fall into by just buying and using Zymol on my favorite guitars. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
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So, just to be certain, this product is safe to use on a Nitro Celluouse OR poly finish...IS THAT CORRECT???
And to be effective it doesn't need to dry and later rubbed in like one would apply on a car correct???
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 08-25-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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It is safe to use on nitro finish - yes. If you have light scratches you want to get rid of, you should use Meguiars scratch x 2.0 first then finish it off with the Zymol. The Meguires is as good at getting rid of light scratches in the finish as the Zymol is at making it shine. together they are simply amazing.
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Yes, OK on Nitrocellulose Lacquer, Polyurethane, and many other finishes.
Yes, you do not let it dry. Wipe it on and off all as one exercise. You'll see how it works as the cloth gets sort of slippery as you finish up when doing it right.
I suggest cotton diapers washed a few times first.
Chris
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Keep it away from your bridge, F-holes and fretboard. You won't be happy if it gets there.
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If you don't mind, I'll try to complete that thought past, "watch out" (for what exactly?).
If you get many products into crevices, they can be hard to polish as intended.
Crevices can be bare wood grain, the edge between an output jack and the guitar body, under the fingerboard extension, around tuners, etc.
Zymol Cleaner Wax is not specially problematic in this regard. It is, however, a light blue/cyan color, so easily visible when left as solid residue.
It is also easy to remove with a damp cloth, a damp soft toothbrush, a wet diaper (OK, wet with water, like from a faucet), or a very small amount of Windex or 70% isopropyl on a soft cloth. Just go easy and do not soak any area and have liquid go running under pickup mounting ring or something.
Again the benefit of diapers is that they are soft after a washing or two, and they have a coarse grain to grab dirt.
All in my opinion/experience with various guitar wonder goo.
Chris
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Thanks to all. This stuff filled in all those tiny crevices and worked like magic! You can still see them at an angle if you look for them, but only because I know they were there. It reminds me of that car polish that matches the color of your car used as a spot filler, except this is one color fits all...smells tropical too...kinda like goin' to the Caribbean on the cheap.
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Oh yeah, Duesenberg or I should have mentioned that when you finish a Zymol treatment, you stick a little paper umbrella in one of the f-holes, or under the strings up above the nut.
Who's forming up the post-Zymol conga line???
Chris
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+1 Originally Posted by PTChristopher
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i don't know but I got a gal that looks hot in a grass skirt! Originally Posted by PTChristopher
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