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I'm In love with a black fretboard, this is the reason I've always used lemon oil.
Ibought a new guitar from a guy that did not use lemon oil and the guitar sounds fantastic. I recently changed strings and used lemon oil on it it sound fantastic but after 2 days the strings gone rusty brown (as usual) but then i realized that it affected not only the look of strings but the sound. I then changed the string removing the oil excess but after 2 days the same result.
I WILL NEVER EVER AGAIN USE LEMON OIL.
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06-28-2012 05:23 AM
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Lemon oil is fine. TOO MUCH lemon oil is the issue. A slight dab will do ya.
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I've always used lemon oil on rosewood fretboards, sparingly. Just a little on a cloth, rub it in, wipe it off. Now I have my first guitar with an ebony fretboard, and I'm wondering if I should use the lemon oil on it, too. What's the consensus?
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Mineral oil?
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I had a 1969 Gibson Les Paul Custom that I seldom played and used lemon oil on the ebony board every six months or so with no problems. I sold it five years ago and the fretboard was in better than new condition. I still have a 1962 ES 355 with ebony board that sits in its case except for once in a blue moon when I take it out to play it a bit. That one also gets a bit of lemon oil periodically and that fretboard is also better than new.
Originally Posted by Norman931
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That is right.. I think I use about 3-4 drop for a FB. Rub it in (with my fingers).. wait 5 min.. rub it off with paper towel. I only do it at most once a year and even then.. judgement call. I dont do it if it doesnt need it. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
On a side note.. Lemon oil is oil... it wont make strings rust.
On a side side note.. I dont use lemon oil any more.. I use Gerlitz's Guitar honey. Smells and Feels better (but is more expensive than Lemon oil but you dont use that much so no biggie)
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I clean the fretboard with lemon oil at least every other time I change strings, so that's approximately anywhere from every second week to every second month depending on the guitar. My gypsy jazz guitar needs string change more often than my archtops since the string coating tends to come off after not too long with these silk and steel strings.
I've never had a problem with lemon oil. I always take care that the fretboard is completely dry before I put on strings.
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agree lemon oil is fine,
used it for decades on my mando, LP and martin
this was at a time when there really werent commerical guitar products-used furniture polish for the finish and lemon oil for unfinished parts like boards and bridges
-never never an issue-
it is oily and must be allowed to penetrate and then completley wiped off
dont over do it
let it sink in
wipe the board clean and it will not affect the strings
i no longer use lemopn oil but bore oil instead, as i prefer how it penetrates-it is a lighter oil
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My opinion is that a remarkable amount of trouble has been caused to fingerboards and fret slots, and fingerboard cracks via the use and overuse of oil.
Wood does not need to eat or drink. Wood is dead. It is primarily a matrix of resin and fiber that has a moisture content that can vary based on ambient conditions. If you introduce oils into the wood you can reduce the ability of the wood to absorb and lose moisture content. This can have the VERY MARGINAL benefit of reducing the extent to which the wood will shrink and swell under changes in ambient conditions.
In my view the one and only potential benefit to oiling the FB is to make it look nicer and to make it slightly less prone to having dead skin stick to it for a short time after it is oiled.
The downside is that oil in fret slots and FB cracks makes work on the guitar difficult. It is usually possible to overcome the use of oil, but it is an extra piece of work when doing fret work and repairing cracks.
Under extreme conditions (pretty easy to get these extreme conditions with very light oil, you know, to FEED the wood), the oils can get between the FB and binding, frets, and even the neck itself.
I know it is unpopular, but consider than you can clean the FB with many things other than oil. Careful and very controlled use of naptha is better than oil as a cleaner.
Then use oil as you might use eyeshadow, a cosmetic that has some mild downsides that are easily avoided through EXTREMELY limited use of the product.
The benefit (such as it is) of using oil as a cosmetic is that you can also use 70% isopropyl or even Windex as an FB cleaner then use a very small amount of oil to cosmetically restore the appearance of the FB top surface.
Penetration beyond the top surface is almost entirely an un-good idea. There is the nearly-arguable benefit of stabilizing the wood by reducing to ability to absorb moisture, but this is weak at best in my opinion.
Anyway, I understand that this does not satisfy some widely held views. It is my opinion. It is also based on many exercises in un-doing the harm caused by oils (of many varieties) on wood.
I suggest (not that anyone asked) lemon or mineral oil used more sparingly than you though possible, and wiped off to the point that you wonder if any is left on the FB at all.
I do not mean my opinion as a criticism of anyone's practices or conclusions about oiling their FB..
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 06-28-2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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I've been playing guitars for70 yrs now and for the life of me cannot understand anyone using lemon oil on a fret board.Why put on an astrigent which dries out the wood! If you been eating fatty or greasy food a slice of lemon gets rid of it.Most of the luthiers (D'Angelico and Jimmy D'Aquisto Roger Borys Chip Wilson) use a very light machine oil as do many others.
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Hi Jazzuki,
I am not a fan of oiling FB's much, but my understanding of "lemon oil" is that you are quite some distance from the "lemon" with its water and citric acid.
I do not think that lemon oil can be regarded as specifically having a drying action on the wood.
Chris
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A lot of interesting comments here.
First of all, lemon oil is not lemon juice. I'm not sure if that was misunderstood, but just in case...
Any oil you put on the fingerboard should be wiped off after a few minutes. Then it won't be an issue.
I'm sure it can be overused, but once or twice a year, seems a good practice and an industry standard recommendation. I'm fairly sure Martin expressly recommends it, though they push their propriety product over generic lemon oil. There are bunches of products and oils that will do the job.
It's my understanding that the reason for the oil is two-fold. 1. to clean it. and 2. to keep the fingerboard from drying out.
A fingerboard can certainly dry out and develop those little cracks. Oiling it it supposed to prevent it. To the guy who hasn't oiled his 335 in 30 years: well, I bet any time you ever took the guitar in for service the luthier did it. He may not have mentioned it as it is de regur. You also may be lucky.
Of course, I'm no luthier or wood expert. But I have, as yet, no reason to doubt what I've heard from many sources.
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Lemon oil is for cleaning the dirt and sweat off greasy fingers and strings.Sorry no way is it a fretboard cleaner.
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Lemon-scented mineral oil may be a clearer appellation. I use a red-tinted variety for teak wood and rosewood furniture. No lemon scent, of course. There is an even darker brown version for dark wood furniture.
1) Apply a few drops of the oil to the cleaning cloth, not directly to the fretboard. A little goes a long way.
2) Wipe the fretboard once or twice, along the grain if you must, although it does diddly.
3) As soon as you finish the area between the last 2 frets, take a clean cloth and start cleaning off the excess oil beginning with the first fret. No need to wait to let the oil seep into the fingerboard. Do it until the fretboard feels "dry" to the touch.
Common sense rules. There is no magic potion. If using Fret Doctor makes you feel better, use it. It's your money.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-28-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Um. OK. Like I said, I'm no expert, so I'm not going to argue very much, but if you just make statements like that without anything to back it up, a reader is less likely to be impressed with it. I mean, we're here to discuss, right? Originally Posted by jazzuki
What I do know is that lemon oil is used as an ingredient in furniture cleaner/polishers.So why is it so ridiculous to use it on a fingerboard?
My basic impression over the years is that ebony and rosewood are very tough and durable woods. It's kind of hard to kill them. All anyone is trying to do is keep the FB clean and keep it from drying out.
I don't think lemon oil is THE panacea for this. Really, I think any natural oil may do. I think silicon works, too, but I've heard that is not the way to go as never goes away.
What is interesting is that the OP said the lemon oil messed up his strings and you say it is a string cleaner! I admit I fairly clueless on that one, but I've never heard of using lemon oil to clean strings. Anyone ever try it?
All I know for sure is my own experience. I just lemon oil each time I change strings in the autumn -- once a year. Looks great afterward. Does it really help? Not sure. But I've never had any problem from using it.
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Y'know, I am actually starting to think that the OP used REAL lemon oil as in the stuff that comes out of a plastic lemon for flavoring. That could explain the strings turning rusty brown.
Tell me it ain't so.
This is what I think most of us are referring to as Lemon Oil: http://www.amazon.com/Old-English-Fu...lish+lemon+oil .
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Yup, thats the stuff!
What i know, from years of using oils on my boards,is that not only do they look nicer,
but there is a real difference from a dry board and one which is oiled>
I know this, because with several of my instruments, all with ebony boards especially and no fingerboard binding, the frets will protrude as the wood shrinks; oil the board and the frets again become flush with the board.
Its not a dream, its real.
I live in Colorado. Today the humidity is about 12%, its going to be 99F..
I am not telling anyone that over oiling is'nt a problem, oil can soften woods, seep under cracks in finishes, get into the tuner holes, loosen glue, etc, if you over do it.
I think it is something that helps. It not only provides moisture to some limited extent, but it helps reduce the changes in moisture in and out of the board.
While oil can indeed loosen crud, as would any fluid imho, including a damp rag, it has more than this as an attribute (i would never use isopropyl unless it is to remove oil-it can, im some applications leave a white haze which is really difficult to remove on some plastics).
I'm only speaking from my experience, in regularly and faithfully maintaining my guitars and mandos and lutes over more than forty years.
I agree the wood will not perish. I have some very old guitar necks I built and never used ('cos they were wrong) from when I used to build. One has braz and one has ebony, both of which are fine, no cracking. However these were from very old, well seasoned stocks of wood-they were about thirty years old when I got them in the very early seventies when i was building guitars.
I can also say that having mandos with both rosewood and ebony bridges, I think , but cannot swear, that the oiled ones i have used have never cracked, but one ebony one, from the thirties and neglected did crack-may have been related tooil , may have been related to grain or something else.
As for silicon, what i dont like is its stays on the surface. I think the interim formula that Martin used to have had silicon. Harmless, leaves shine due to it spreading thinly over the surface, but it also leaves a haze and seems to take forever to disperse.
Clean your strings with lemon oil, or any oil, and they will sound a bit deader. I know this from simply playing a guitar, more than a few times that i had oiled but not wiped down and let finish penetrating, or swabbe the oil under the strings without taking them off.
imho not all oils are suitable. The Old English, and the bore oil I prefer, are light and thin. They go on and off easily, they dont last forever, and they dont gum stuff up.
I have used something called Fret Doctor. It is significantly heavier, like mineral oil (which is butcher block oil-fairly viscous stuff).
I dont know what Fret DOctor is exacty, but it is the type of oil that PT The Chris would and rightly should dislike. It is exactly the kind of stuff that can become a problem
, if over used.
I purchased a les paul some years back, NOS, and the dealer really oiled the board to give it that sexy deep deep chocolate brown appearance. (Gibson rosewood had been rather lighter incolor at the time). Fret Doctor not only oils but also somehow darkens seemingly more than other oils. It took about a year for that oiling to disappate, and for the board not to feel 'wet', ie my finger moisture stayed on the top. I could indeed feel that the board flet a bit 'softer' than normal rosewood boards I have.
otoh it is a nice product if you want to darken the board, provided you dont over do it and wipe it off after 5-10 minutesLast edited by stevedenver; 06-28-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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Oh boy . . . . I'd like to think we're all way beyond this issue . . . but, then I forget that we are always adding new people here who were not included in these discussions.
To PTChris' point . . there is lemon oil . . and then there is lemon oil.
To jazzuki's point . . real lemon oil, quality lemon oil, when used excessively will be more detrimental to unfinished wood fret boards, rosewood and ebony . .than it will be helpful.
Some of the "lemon oil" fretboard treatments are lemon scented oils derived from sources other than . . . lemons. True lemon oil has a very large percentage of d-limonene, as does any citrus fruit. If you were to take a highly concentrated form of industrial grade d-limonene and stick your hand in a bucketof it . .. you'd pull out olny the skeletal remains of your hand. If you have an old guitar with a true nitro finish on it . . and you really don't like that guitar and feel adventurous . . . take a lemon and squeege it, along with the skin/zest to extract as much oil as possible from it. Put a few drops of the oil on the nitro finish of your guitar. Then, you'll understand why it is highly unadvisable to use on a fret board. It's a solvent! It IS in fact, a cleaner. Solvents have a very high volatility rating . . . meaning, they evaporate quickly and thoroughly. When doing so on a fret board, they will also take the natural oils of the wood, emulsify them (to a degree) and cause them to evaporate along with the solvent d-limonene . . . thus, "drying out the wood".
Here's another example for ya as it relates to "oiling" a fret board . . but, to the extreme. If you take a piece of ebony or rosewood and coat the top of the wood, daily, with an excessive amount of oil . . . ANY oil . . and do not wipe it off quickly . . over a period of time, the wood will start to become softer, spongier, more open and absorbent. Those are not qualities that are friendly to enhancing string vibrations aka .. tone.Last edited by Patrick2; 06-28-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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In more than forty-five years of guitar playing and owning, I have never put oil on a fingerboard. In all that time, there have been no fingerboard cracks, and no issues. I suppose it could happen - I'm not done playing yet. But I see no reason to change.
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Now... if there happens to be an EXPERT in the room...
I have heard that you are NOT supposed to oil Ebony.
Discuss....
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Ebony probably requires more care than rosewood. Many things factor into this though. Temp, RH, playing frequency, natural oils and emollients being transfered from fingers to fret board.
If used properly in application and buffing, tung oil could be a strong posibility for treatment and care of ebony fretboards. However, tung oil in not just a "wipe on - wipe off" type of product.Last edited by Patrick2; 06-28-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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Never really thought about this. I humidify my guitars and the oil I've been applying to the fretboard with some diligence over the years (can't recall the brand.. it's supposed to be for oiling fretboards) is probably contrary to the stability in the wood I'm looking for. Guess it's not doing the bridge on my flattops much good either. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
So, do you think that oil represents a substitute for moisture to keep the wood from shrinking too much or is it just sludge clogging up the works?Last edited by Spook410; 06-28-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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Oil and wood don't go together on fingerboards, especially if one has to use glue for refretting, glue don't like oil.
Someone on this forum once said they coat their fingerboard in linseed oil and leave it over night
I choose 'Gorgomyte' (available at all good stockists), it's the best stuff I've found and polishes frets too!
Gorgomyte Fret And Fingerboard Conditioner
Look.....
Jazzbow Roshi say.....
Gorgomyte on, right hand. Gorgomyte off, left hand. Gorgomyte on, Gorgomyte off. Breathe in through nose, out the mouth. Gorgomyte on, Gorgomyte off. Don't forget to breathe, very important.
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the only post i've thubs up +1 but still i've used the dunlop lemon oil 1 apply 1 remove excess 2 apply 2 remove excess no overdose then 2 days strings brown removed strings removed any excess new strings 2 days the same tommorow gig and i install new string set just befor playing in the bar... Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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It's really more about the frequency it's applied, the quantity used and the application method, than it is about the type of oil used. As I mentioned, unless you are using a pure derivative of a citrus fruit, with a high concentration of d-limonene .. . . you're probably not using the wrong stuff. Most of the "lemon oil" products sold as fret board conditioners are more than likely oK . . unless it's specifically stated that there are also petroleum distilltes included. Picture a commercial ketchup or mustard plastic squeeze bottle . . . the kind with the pointy tip that you squeeze the product out through. Now picture that bottle with the tip cut so that it only allows a very small "bead" of oil to pass through it. Run a single bead or line of oil up the length of the center of the fret board and IMMEDIATLY spead it with a clean dry cloth. The spreading will also remove excess. Then, when you have distributed it over every bit of the ebony finger board, IMMEDIATLY turn the cloth over to the clean dry side that wasn't in touch with the oil. Continue to rub vigorously until you can hardly see any residual of oil .. . only a very thin darker sheen. If necessary, use another clean dry cloth to further remove excess. Don't worry . . the finger board has already "drank in" enough of the oil. *important* . . . if your usage of the guitar and/or the climate conditions require you to re treat the finger board within the next 6 months . . before you do so, clean the fret board thoroughly . . . especially near the frets where they meet the finger board. Use naptha, carefully, and wipe thoroughly prior to re treating with a fret board oil. Originally Posted by Spook410
The proceedure with tung oil is somewhat similar . . . but, it's important to tape off the sides of the neck . . . don't get the tung oil onto the nitro cell lacq, and if you do, wipe it off immediately. If it dries on there, it will be hard to remove later. Use even less tung oil than traditional fret board oil . . . then wheel buff the ebony about an hour after application. There has always been push back on using tung oil, because some think it's a topical coating which will seal the wood. It's really more of an impregnator than a topical coating or sealer. (That last sentence could spark a day long debate.)
Avoid using linseed oil.
It won't become sludge if it's not applied excessively in quantities or frequency . . . and if it's wiped off before the ebony "drinks in" too much of what you do put on it. Remember, all you ever want to do is replace the natural oils that might have been lost ove time. That would normally be very little amounts of natural oils. If you think your fret board is abnormally dry . . clean it thoroughly . . expose it to an environment with a minimum 60% RH for a day or two to allow the wood to become rehydrated with good ol' moisture in the air, rather than the oil treatment. Also, remember if the wood is very dry and oil is applied . . the oil will act as a moisture barrier, not allowing the moisture in the air to rehydrate the wood, as it should.So, do you think that oil represents a substitute for moisture to keep the wood from shrinking too much or is it just sludge clogging up the works?
It's all pretty much common sense.Last edited by Patrick2; 06-28-2012 at 09:34 PM. Reason: To many typos due to too much damn wine!!!
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