This is the last time I've used LEMON OIL on a guitar

[AmundLauritzen]

I suppose the need for cleaning depends on each persons body chemistry, as in regards to the frequency of string change, some people have more acidic sweat which tears the strings to change more often. Maybe this also applies to the "grease"(for lack of a better word) that accumulates on the fretboard and makes it sticky. It's probably a combination of sweat and dead skin - yuck! Anyway people are different and I'm certain some people would need to clean the fretboard more often. I play my two main guitars for hours every day, so I need to clean the fretboards regularly to improve playability.

There have been some very compelling arguments made against lemon oil that leads me to rethink my stance on the subject. Although I love how easy the fretboard is to navigate after a cleaning, I certainly do not want to damage my guitars!
Those of you who do not use lemon oil. What is the BEST alternative that will clean the fretboard and not damage it?

[feral guitar]

every once in a while i use
gerlitz guitar honey
love it

[PTChristopher]

[Spook 410] >>> the oil I've been applying to the fretboard with some diligence over the years [...] is probably contrary to the stability in the wood I'm looking for. Guess it's not doing the bridge on my flattops much good either.

It is likely having a negligible effect on the stability of the wood. If anything, it can increase the dimensional stability of the wood by decreasing the ability of the wood to absorb moisture.

>>> So, do you think that oil represents a substitute for moisture to keep the wood from shrinking too much or is it just sludge clogging up the works?

To a small extent, the oil can act as what you describe as a substitute for moisture in terms of its presence in the wood. So oil can reduce the day to day effect of changing ambient moisture on the dimensional stability of the wood.

>>> is it just sludge clogging up the works?

It can become a sludge in two ways:

- You can use linseed or other vegetable oils that can polymerize on the surface of the wood. This is a terrible idea for an FB in my opinion.

- You can have oil on the FB surface that helps to capture finger crud, forming a sort of sludge. This represents one of the more unpleasant parts of working on a guitar, especially if you think about what is in the crud.

To sort of repeat:

1. At best, oiling an FB can provide some cosmetic comfort. It does not feed the wood.

2. Yes, oiling wood can lessen the degree to which the wood will gain and lose moisture (and go through dimensional changes). BUT:

a. You should prevent your guitar from experiencing extreme cycles of moisture anyway.

b. The amount of oil needed to have a serious impact often (usually) results in problems as already identified by several posts above.

3. In my opinion, any sort of polymerizing vegetable oil should never be used. And any other type of oil should be used as sparingly as possible (about 1/100th as much as you think you should use,...) and with the understanding that it has only a cosmetic benefit.

All in my opinion.

Chris

[Patrick2]

Never really thought about this. I humidify my guitars and the oil I've been applying to the fretboard with some diligence over the years (can't recall the brand.. it's supposed to be for oiling fretboards) is probably contrary to the stability in the wood I'm looking for. Guess it's not doing the bridge on my flattops much good either.

So, do you think that oil represents a substitute for moisture to keep the wood from shrinking too much or is it just sludge clogging up the works?

[quote=PTChristopher;237004][Spook 410] >>> the oil I've been applying to the fretboard with some diligence over the years [...] is probably contrary to the stability in the wood I'm looking for. Guess it's not doing the bridge on my flattops much good either.

It is likely having a negligible effect on the stability of the wood. If anything, it can increase the dimensional stability of the wood by decreasing the ability of the wood to absorb moisture.

>>> So, do you think that oil represents a substitute for moisture to keep the wood from shrinking too much or is it just sludge clogging up the works?

To a small extent, the oil can act as what you describe as a substitute for moisture in terms of its presence in the wood. So oil can reduce the day to day effect of changing ambient moisture on the dimensional stability of the wood.

>>> is it just sludge clogging up the works?

It can become a sludge in two ways:

- You can use linseed or other vegetable oils that can polymerize on the surface of the wood. This is a terrible idea for an FB in my opinion.

- You can have oil on the FB surface that helps to capture finger crud, forming a sort of sludge. This represents one of the more unpleasant parts of working on a guitar, especially if you think about what is in the crud.

To sort of repeat:

1. At best, oiling an FB can provide some cosmetic comfort. It does not feed the wood.

2. Yes, oiling wood can lessen the degree to which the wood will gain and lose moisture (and go through dimensional changes). BUT:

a. You should prevent your guitar from experiencing extreme cycles of moisture anyway.

b. The amount of oil needed to have a serious impact often (usually) results in problems as already identified by several posts above.

3. In my opinion, any sort of polymerizing vegetable oil should never be used. And any other type of oil should be used as sparingly as possible (about 1/100th as much as you think you should use,...) and with the understanding that it has only a cosmetic benefit.

All in my opinion.

Chris

and this is where that day long debate that I referenced earlier comes in.

Tung oil is available in pure, modified and polymerized forms. The fast drying, polymerized forms are indeed a topical coating. The purest of tung oil is slow drying and provides an excellent protection as well as beautifying the ebony. Apply it once, correctly . . . and you'll probably not need to apply it again for 10 years. Caveat . . . if you do apply tung oil, it renders any future application of any other oil useless, unnecessary and problematic.

I've got pure tung oil on the fret board of my 2011 Gibson Wesmo. So far .. . very happy!!

[PTChristopher]

Hiya Patrick,

>>> and this is where that day long debate that I referenced earlier comes in.

Har-har. I understand what you mean, so thanks for clarifying your view on Tung Oil.

There is no question that many people are very satisfied with an oiled FB.

Also, despite complaints from Jazzbow and myself, it is usually possible to get the bulk of the oil out of cracks, fret slots, etc. when working on an FB.

And major respect for your restraint recently.

Chris

[bborzell]

Someone mentioned Fret Doctor. Last I looked, it is the same formulation as Bore Doctor which I use on my grenadilla clarinet. Given that a woodwind experiences all manner of moisture intrusion, from the player's saliva to drawing moisture from the atmosphere, an occasional light oiling of the bore is routinely suggested. However, only on rare instances have I found myself drooling on a guitar fretboard.

[Jabberwocky]

In the main, I think most of us oil our fretboards just to lavish TLC on our guitars. I don't really think it makes a difference either way; it's just a way of showing our tender loving care on an assembled box of wood, hardware and a set of strings...somewhat like what we do to our favorite ride (I don't drive but I pedal).

Like my ex-girlfriend's mother used to say to me, I can always tell a man's character by his shoes. I used to sport grubby unpolished bovver Doc Martens. Still do and unmarried to this very day.

[Spook410]

Thanks guys. The insights are very much appreciated.

We're raised with the idea that oiling wood is a good thing so it can be counter-intuitive that you don't gain much by doing this and can actually help grime build around your frets. Fret grime is just wrong.

I live in a high desert. I keep all guitars (and the wife's ukulele) in a humidified closet. The moisture content should be just fine without oil.

[jazzbow]

However, only on rare instances have I found myself drooling on a guitar fretboard.

Man, you need to visit more guitar shops....

Talking of fret grime (and I may have mentioned this story before!), I did a acoustic guitar bridge repair for this woman and she had the most putrid gunky fret board I had seen, like sticky porridge, yeuch!!
So as a freebie I cleaned off the gunk and when she collected it she just freaked out. 'Who told you to clean my guitar? How dare you!'

Weird

[oldane]

I did a acoustic guitar bridge repair for this woman and she had the most putrid gunky fret board I had seen, like sticky porridge, yeuch!!
So as a freebie I cleaned off the gunk and when she collected it she just freaked out. 'Who told you to clean my guitar? How dare you!'

Weird

The story goes that many Scottish people love porridge. Who knows, maybe it's memories of a romantic breakfast with a secret lover. Whatever, it's easily removed with Glemorangie - provided it's the 10 year edition matured in plain bourbon casks. The editions matured in port wine casks are too sticky and will make matters worse.

Now, haggis on a fretboard should be more difficult to remove.

Here in Denmark, we also have our own national kind of gunk. Juice from marinaded raw herrings and aged cheese. We wipe that off (and down - but that's another story) with "Red Aalborg" schnapps.

[drobniuch]

I searched the net and some say that
1) The lemon oil is sticki so it will attrack dirt and so it's bettter just to use a sligli wet cloth
2) The lemon oil changes the structur of wood making it less resonate

Conclusion it's bad 4 guitar..
why many people reccommend it and even say to leave it to soak it to the wood...??

[jazzbow]

Now, haggis on a fretboard should be more difficult to remove.

I'm actually from London so I'm more used to 'jellied eels,' 'Pie & Mash' and 'London Pride' from finger residue.

But a wee dram would see off any mingin slitter and leave a wee swallae fae yersel.

Yeah, that whole fret gunk thing was a steep learning curve for a budding guitar mechanic fresh out of college.

[PTChristopher]

>>> I searched the net and some say that

>>> 1) The lemon oil is sticki so it will attrack dirt and so it's bettter just to use a sligli wet cloth


>>>2) The lemon oil changes the structur of wood making it less resonate

Now take a subject that you really know. Maybe your professional area of expertise or something that you know inside and out as a hobby even.

Now "search the net" and see just what incredible drivel you can turn up.

Or, note the nearly accurate stuff that gets sloppily re-told as "I read on the web,..." rendering it misleading at best.

Now consider applying that experience to what you read about some of the more controversial or misunderstood things about guitars.

Lemon oil is not really very sticky at all. If you really wipe it off, you will only end up with slightly more dirt on the FB than if you did not use it at all. This is my observation from working on many guitars, you may disagree.

Yes an shiny-with-oil FB will capture more dust and dead skin, but lemon oil is not particularly evil in this regard.

Lemon oil does not change the structure of the wood. It can soak into the FB to some extent and reduce the moisture content of the wood. I have never noted this to have any impact whatsoever on the resonance of the FB. (And maybe when you think of "resonance of the FB", it is clear just what a silly notion this idea of FB oil changing the sound of the guitar is anyway.)

I think it is cosmetic at best to oil the FB, and that one would do well to think of the absolute smallest amount of oil you can possibly imagine using, then use less than 10% of that amount. Then immediately wipe it off completely. In my opinion.

I have had to clean up awful messes left by FB oil enthusiasts, but I have never noted a sound difference due to the oil.

All in my opinion, which "I read on the web somewhere." Geeesshhh.

Chris

[Dark Star]

Wow. I remember when an old toothbrush & some 3 in 1 oil was good enough.

[PTChristopher]

Still is good enough.

The toothbrush being the valuable part, the "3-in-1" oil being the OK-ish part if really (really, really) kept to a minimum and completely wiped off afterwards.

In my opinion.

EDIT, for non US people: "3 in 1" oil is a brand name product that is mostly light mineral oil. I think there is also some low amount of vegetable oil and maybe other low percentage ingredients. But for practical purposes on a guitar FB it is a very light mineral oil. Any cleaning ability it may have is minor compared to the benefit of a good toothbrush (or other) scrubbing of the FB.

If I was less lazy I'd lookup the MSDS sheet on 3 in 1 oil.

EDIT AGAIN:

The MSDS shows it as >97% mineral oil, less than 2% naptha (so some cleaning solvent there), and less than 3% non-hazardous ingredients which could include vegetable oil.

[Dark Star]

Sewing machine oil in a pinch

[Philco]

Whilst we are talking about treating fingerboards I'd like to ask about the product "Finger-ease" It's sold as a string lubricant......not a fretboard lubricant.

However it's impossible not to get it on the board when you apply it.
I give the strings a spray perhaps once a month.

Does anyone know if this stuff is bad for the fretboard?

Fingerease Guitar String Lubricant

[PTChristopher]

May as well deal with the "S" word while we are talking goo.

Finger Ease is silicone. (Well, solvents and propellants too for a while - but in the end it is silicone.)

Silicone is inert for all practical guitar purposes. It will do no damage to your FB, your frets, your strings, or your fingers. It will have no short-term or long-term deteriorative effect on any finish that you have on your guitar.

>>> However it's impossible not to get it on the board when you apply it.

Well, you can spray it on a cloth and then wipe it on the strings, which gets far less on the FB.

****************

Now someone will have "read on the web" that silicone is bad for lacquer.

All brands of pro nitro that are sprayed on guitars contain silicone. Yep, your lacquer does not have a bikini wax, but it has silicone.

The "trouble" with silicone is in a finish repair. If there is even a very small amount of silicone on a surface, almost all finishes will get a "fish-eye" - this is a spot where the finish will not flow over the surface. It is a small blank spot in the sprayed on coat. It is a pain.

The solution is to clean the guitar before finishing, or touching up a finish. It is only a minor job to do a serious surface clean before spraying.

Now in an auto body shop, the work flow and issues are different. I think it is legal in most states to use deadly force if you bring silicone into an auto body shop, which can wreck havoc with the workflow of a car finish. This aversion to silicone is ironic considering the calendar photography in some auto body shops.

Anyway, Finger Ease is fine. It uses a solvent (naptha if I recall correctly, which is not always a safe bet) and propellant to get a very fine layer of silicone on your strings (and anywhere else in the kill zone as you spray.)

In my opinion you could do just as well with a miniscule amount of Dow 33 on a cloth that you touch your fingers to now and then. I mean a MINISCULE amount of Dow 33, which is so slippery that when you open the tube your shoelaces come untied.

Blah, blah, blah,...

Chris

[PTChristopher]

If you think guitar-dom gets crazy about silicone and lacquer, you should hear the drivel that flows regarding silicone used on silk fly lines on bamboo flyrods.

Same deal as guitars. It does no harm, and needs to be very carefully cleaned off in a re-finish.

I fish with silk and bamboo and use silicone. Life goes on. Rods get re-finished. Fish are caught on old-timey self-made tackle that is just too cool for words. It's weird considering that I "read on the web" that it is evil to use silicone.

Chris

[PTChristopher]

OK, there is an actual problem with silcone. Sort of.

If you use silicone polish on your guitar, you will be actively rubbing it into micro scratches in the finish. You are far better at this than you may think. It can be hard to clean a guitar that has been polished with a silicone polish a number of times. Silicone molecules will be way down in those micro scratches in the finish. There are solutions to this problem but yeah, it is better to not have it in the first place.

So my opinion is that rubbing your guitar with a silicone-containing polish can make for notable extra work in a repair. Still do-able, just some extra work.

Irony: If you get "fish-eyes" in a finish due to silicone, you can use an additive to help the new finish to flow over the cause of the fish-eye. You add it to the new finish before spraying.

Wanna guess what the additive is?

Chris

[Philco]

Thanks PTC. Nice to get such a detailed answer. I feel better about it but I'll use it less now.

No doubt off topic but when you spray that stuff it really does have a wide "stream" of spray. I always wonder about breathing that stuff in.
I mean there must be molecules all over the place when you press the button.

Can't be good for the lungs.

[PTChristopher]

I suggest to read the MSDS on the product and see how the relative hazards are characterized.

Chris

[Spook410]

If you think guitar-dom gets crazy about silicone and lacquer, you should hear the drivel that flows regarding silicone used on silk fly lines on bamboo flyrods.

Same deal as guitars. It does no harm, and needs to be very carefully cleaned off in a re-finish.

I fish with silk and bamboo and use silicone. Life goes on. Rods get re-finished. Fish are caught on old-timey self-made tackle that is just too cool for words. It's weird considering that I "read on the web" that it is evil to use silicone.

Chris

In saltwater, even Luddites eschew silk and bamboo. Graphite in a stout taper and WF7 tyvm. Of course now that I've been exposed to stocked rainbow trout here in New Mexico, I am convinced that anything would be adequate. Pathetic fish. They expire with no more than a harsh word.

Whatever it is I'm cleaning my lines with appears to have silicon in it. Graphite rods don't care.

What does this have to do with guitar FB's? It depends on your approach to fishing and guitar. There have been books on this.

[Dad3353]

...However it's impossible not to get it on the board when you apply it...

Good morning, Philco...

I suppose you could slide some paper (or even aluminium foil...) under the strings before spraying..? It might help keep the stuff off the FB..?

(...and most generous of you concerning disposal of your collection if you 'go'. Watch your back..! )

[oldane]

Whilst we are talking about treating fingerboards I'd like to ask about the product "Finger-ease" It's sold as a string lubricant......not a fretboard lubricant.

I have heard about such stuff and, have viewed it as snake oil, and have never used it myself. One benefit I could think of is reducing finger sqeeks with round wound strings, though I figure the effect must be marginal (?). Have anyone noticed any significant effect?